Newbie Question on Amp, Pre-Amp

[sangdabom]

Hello.
This is what I have setup now
Marantz SR8200
Paradigm Studio 80 V2
Paradigm Studio CC
Paradigm PDR12 Sub
Paradigm ADP-170 Surround Speakers.

I listen to different variety of music. Classical, Piano Sonatas, Vocal, Jazz, Pops... I'm not too much of heavy rock or metal tho.
When I first bought this system(which was about 5 years ago), I bought for both HT and listening to music.
Now, I wanna see if I can upgrade the audio of the system.
I don't know much of amps. I didnt even know you need pre-amp in order to use power amp(unless you go for integrated amp).
I also know it is very hard for ppl to answer questions like "which amps should I buy?"
However, that's the question that I'm gonna ask.

What kinds of amp should I buy for the Speakers that I have?
Having Amps make difference in sound quality vs AV receiver? How much of difference can I expect?
How much is right amount(not an overkill) for amps for these speakers?
What do you suggest me to setup the system? Should I buy both pre-amp and power amp? or Just buy Power Amp and use my AV receiver as pre amp?

My system is in our family room. The size of room is around 22'(w) x 18'(d) x 20'(h).

Thanks a lot for your comments.

=)

[aevans]

If you are going for stereo upgrade, not a replacement to the current setup:
I have a recommendation, get a kinergetics kba-75.. I get more detail out of my speakers than I ever thought possible. it's a good high current amp that will drive your speakers very well, I have never had one clip on me and I have driven them beyond hard with the 1812 overture as well as other less elegant tracks from the likes of dr. dre at house parties for hours on end.

can be picked up off of ebay for $500.. I would suggest just using your current reciever as a preamp before going off the deep end and getting a full setup.

Don't get this one, the platinum series are a little better and much prettier.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Kinergetics-KBA-...QQcmdZViewItem

[Mr Peabody]

If you want a large difference in sound, you will need to upgrade the pre and power amp. Any power amp you use will always be limited to the receivers preamp ability.

If your receiver has preamp outs another solution would be to get a stereo integrated or separates with a preamp. The integrated or pre will need feature called "theater through" or "processor bypass". You would be able to hook the receivers L/R main out into the pre/integrated and then use it to run the front L/R while watching HT and then have a dedicated stereo set up for music. This may be less expensive than going pre/pro/power.

If you consider separates they would start at Adcom and Rotel. Next would be brands like Anthem and Arcam. Some here recommend Outlaw but I don't know anything about them.

[aevans]

while I understand the idea of garbage in/garbage out, a clean power amp will make a noticable audible differance in the presentation and acuracy of what is provided in comparison to a integrated theater amps output even when going through the integrated as a preamp.

I did this recently, and the sound while not as good of a noise floor it's damn close to the same sound minus some details.

I'd say 80% improvement from the amp and another 20% from the preamp if I had to break it down.

[Mr Peabody]

In the set up I described he would have a DEDICATED stereo set up, in which, if the stereo amp was of good quality, the HT receiver with outboard amp would not compare.

With a bypass feature the HT receiver uses the integrated as a slave to power the front 2 speakers. When listening to stereo the HT side would have no effect on the music what so ever. Your music sources go to the stereo unit, the video sources to the HT receiver.

Your set up is a popular configuration. Many music lovers are still left wanting though. Receiver preamps are just not that great and especially inferior to most stand alone preamps or high quality integrated preamps. You have to maintain the source signal throughout the system. If it is degregaded at the preamp there is nothing you can do to restore it. Granted a good outboard power amp is head and shoulders above what is in a receiver but if you want a true high quality sound you need to upgrade the entire signal path.

[aevans]

when I mentioned that "I did this recently", I meant tried my av receiver as a preamp, I've got a dedicated preamp.

as for the other stuff... werd!

[Steve K.]

aevans,
You will probably get as many opinions as reviewers. I would suggest always soaking as much out of your present system as you can via cables, power conditioning, speaker cables and power cords before moving on. Personally, I found that seperates is the way to go for 2 channel audio. It was a long, expensive, upgrade road for me to quit trying to get the same experience from receivers. However, there are many, many people who say that their bose radio sounds the best to them and that is why audio is a personal choice and is so subjective.

Regards,

Steve K.

[sangdabom]

Mr Peabody,

If your receiver has preamp outs another solution would be to get a stereo integrated or separates with a preamp. The integrated or pre will need feature called "theater through" or "processor bypass". You would be able to hook the receivers L/R main out into the pre/integrated and then use it to run the front L/R while watching HT and then have a dedicated stereo set up for music. This may be less expensive than going pre/pro/power.

My receiver does have Preouts.
Correct me if I'm wrong. You are suggesting me to get Preamp+Poweramp for listening to stereo from the preouts of my receiver, right?

So, the connection would be from My stereo source to AV receiver to Preamp to Poweramp?
If that right, what kind of preamp and poweramp would you recommend?
It would be easier for me if you can point out some equipments for me. From there, I can tell if they are too expensive or do-able.

Also, what is Proamp? So the best config would be Pre+pro+poweramp?
Excuse me for newbieness, but I didnt even know there were proamps. I guess its a amp that recondition sound quality which comes from preamp?
Is it really necessary?
I mean does it make it worth to spend lot of money for Proamp?
Would my speakers be worth spending money on pre, pro, power amps?

Honestly, I dunno how good of my speakers are. They sound pretty good to me, and I dont want to upgrade speakers just because I wont be able to use full capacity of new equipments that I would buy.

Thanks

[Mr Peabody]

No. you would not use any of the receiver for stereo listening. The preamp is the part of the receiver that has the controls, the power amp is just the power section with input and speaker connections only. The preamp has the source selector, volume control, source inputs etc. An integrated amp is both pre and power in one box with no tuner and usually better sound than a receiver.

Here's my old set up for example; I have a Krell integrated with a "theater through" feature, my CD and turntable went to that and I have my main speakers connected to it, so it is a dedicated stereo system for music. I have a preamp processor that my DVD and cable box went to via digital connections. From the processors outputs, center and rear went to a 3 channel amp, front L/R out went to my Krell. When watching movies I turned on the Krell and hit the "theater through" button and the Krell then essentially became a power amp for my L/R in the HT system.

You could do the same configuration with a stereo integrated and your receiver. The only difference is your receiver has the amp for center and rear built in.

Don't you use Paradigm, I think they would be fine for a decent stereo set up. If you want to try this, let me know your budget and I will look around for options with a "bypass" feature.

The other poster suggested putting a power amp between your receiver and speakers and your receivers preamp section would drive it. So you could get a stereo power amp to beef up the sound of your system for stereo playback with your existing receiver. If you want to try this I know where there is a 200x2 Classe' for $699.00 used. You can also find Adcoms around cheaper than that but not near the qualiy, lot'of options.

[blackraven]

Whats your budget? For under $2,000 I'm a fan of outlaw amps and preamps as well as NAD for their nice warm sound. I also like adcom. But audio is so subjective, you just have to go out and listen with the same music, same speakers and same CD player if possible. Using different audio equipment to choose a power amp is like comparing apples to oranges. Other wise, see if you can take home the equipment and audition it. Don't rule out high end receivers either. Some give separates a run for the money in sound quality.

[sangdabom]

When I first bought the system, I loved how mid-range were standing out.
I don't like sounds to be too bright. They tends to bother me.
As far as the budget goes, I don't really know yet. I would not want to spend more than 2k for equipments tho.

[sangdabom]

I just talked to the dealer where I got my system from.
This is what he suggested.
He wants me to get Adcom GFA-5802($1900) to get it connected to AV receiver that I have for now.
Then, if I feel spending more money, get a pre-amp to go with power amp that I have.
He is saying that Adcom amp will be a good fit for my likings.

What do you guys think?
Is $1900 good price for the Adcom GFA-5802?

Thanks

[aevans]

I'd suggest going used, audio equipment lasts for a good 10-20 years without problems, and sometimes even longer. the price difference will be substantial.

[sangdabom]

How is Adcom GFA-5802?
When I called a local store(where they didnt have Adcom, but had Rotel, McIntosh, etc), a rep said its very bright amp.
Personally, I dont like bright sounds. They tend to bother me. I'm more towards Midrange guy. I mostly listen to classical music, vocal, jazz, and some pops(but mostly oldies and swings).

[markw]

FWIW. given my choice and the bucks to sway it, I'd take a Mac over the others any day.