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  1. #1
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    New Receiver or Add Amp?

    Prior advice suggested I go with a seperates for our home theater. Budget contstraints make it tough to go with good seperates versus a new receiver.

    I have an Onkyo TX SR600 thats a couple years old but does get dolby digital ex pro logic II, extended dts es surround, cinema filter. I was planning on spending $2000 to buy a better receiver. Would I be better off buying an amp to go with this receiver or buy a new receiver. Suggestions? I've been directed to Yamaha Receivers and have read enough that I would probably go that route if I just buy a new receiver. Amps? If this is a better route which ones?

    Marianne

  2. #2
    F1
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    Maybe I'm off-line and didn't really follow your previous posts but if you haven't got your speakers I suggest to use the $2000 to top up your speaker budget. Imo, adding an amp to your receiver will not make significant improvement, but adding $2000 to your front & center speakers will make big difference. Besides, what you don't like about your Onkyo.

  3. #3
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    went to a forum on recievers and seperates your best bet is NAD components but a little pricy,i have yamaha equipment myself excellent pieces for the money.but
    depending what u want todo the nad components were great ,also if u want to move up in power! just a thought,separate pieces are the way to go ,pre amp power amp, etc but this route will cost a little more

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by F1
    Maybe I'm off-line and didn't really follow your previous posts but if you haven't got your speakers I suggest to use the $2000 to top up your speaker budget. Imo, adding an amp to your receiver will not make significant improvement, but adding $2000 to your front & center speakers will make big difference. Besides, what you don't like about your Onkyo.
    Our entire budget is categorized for a home theater projector, speakers, dvd player & better receiver. Probably going to upgrade speakers to Paradigm Studio but this is a seperate budget item.

    Prior advice suggested go with seperates but the little research I have done it seems I am out of my budget to buy both pre amp & amp. So I thought maybe I could start something I could build on and get an amp for my current receiver and later when I recoup I could add the pre amp. Will this help get purer sound or should I just stick to a better receiver?

  5. #5
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    paradigm,great speakers ,made in canada,it has many brands to fit your budget.lots of brands out there for what u want to spend,just make sure they are from a decent company,adding a power amp to your present receiver will make a big difference just remember one thing,does your receiver aloud u to add on
    without additional eqiupment plugins rca jacks.lots of 7 channels amps out there better then 6 channel.
    .easy to upgrade later 4 pre amp
    bye 4 now,

  6. #6
    DIY Dude poneal's Avatar
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    I looked up specs of your receiver here:

    http://www.onkyo-intl.com/downloads/...00_leaflet.pdf

    Although specs dont say it all, it appears as though you have a decent recevier. It has most bells and whistles that some current low ends dont even have. Is it not enough power or do you just have the stereo bug? If you need more power then I would suggest getting a flagship receiver from Onkyo, Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Nad, or the likes. I know Harman Kardon sells there flagship receiver for $1999. You have lots of choices in this price range. You best bet is to go out a play around with all them and see which one you like best.

    If your receiver has preouts then you could buy 5 monoblock amplifers or a 5 channel amp and connect the preouts to these amp(s). This would provide you with more power while saving you money. Outlaw audio has there monoblock on sale for $300 X 5 = 1500 plus tax. They are 200wpc into 8ohm and 300wpc into 4ohm and can even drive 2ohm loads when needed for short periods of time.

    I guess you could also sell your current reciever and use that to add to your budget for a new receiver/amp. Personally, If I were you I would choose to buy monoblocks or a 5 channel amp and use the current reciever as the preprocessor. When it comes down to it, you are the one that has to make the choice. Hope some of this has helped.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by poneal
    I looked up specs of your receiver here:

    http://www.onkyo-intl.com/downloads/...00_leaflet.pdf

    Although specs dont say it all, it appears as though you have a decent recevier. It has most bells and whistles that some current low ends dont even have. Is it not enough power or do you just have the stereo bug? If you need more power then I would suggest getting a flagship receiver from Onkyo, Harman Kardon, Yamaha, Nad, or the likes. I know Harman Kardon sells there flagship receiver for $1999. You have lots of choices in this price range. You best bet is to go out a play around with all them and see which one you like best.

    If your receiver has preouts then you could buy 5 monoblock amplifers or a 5 channel amp and connect the preouts to these amp(s). This would provide you with more power while saving you money. Outlaw audio has there monoblock on sale for $300 X 5 = 1500 plus tax. They are 200wpc into 8ohm and 300wpc into 4ohm and can even drive 2ohm loads when needed for short periods of time.

    I guess you could also sell your current reciever and use that to add to your budget for a new receiver/amp. Personally, If I were you I would choose to buy monoblocks or a 5 channel amp and use the current reciever as the preprocessor. When it comes down to it, you are the one that has to make the choice. Hope some of this has helped.

    I went to the link you sent and I'm not sure if my receiver has all the specs on that link. Either they re-wrote the book to make it sound better or they added new features after I bought mine. I don't know why but I'm staring at my "instruction manuel" from Onkyo for the TX-SR600 and the specs look different. I'm going to e-mail onkyo to find out why but here are the following differences - the link you sent has

    Wide Range Amp technology - mine does not say that?
    145 watts per channel - mine says a max power output of 145 at 6, a continuous output of 115w at 6, a 80watt min per channel at 8
    Also there are amplifier features not even listed on mine
    This could be a model for a different country???

    Picture looks just like mine but at the top it does not have the WRAT or list 192khz/24bit - it does not have the skinny side button under the power button

  8. #8
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    First off going from Onkyo to Yamaha would be a step backwards. Onkyo's power amp section is one of the few in receivers that is a true high current design. 100 watts or Onkyo will slam harder and drive a more difficult speaker load than 100 watts of Yamaha power. Yamaha has nothing to offer more than what you already have.

    Secondly, if you don't have good speakers, I agree that is something to address before you get anything else.

    Thirdly, if you want better sound, more detail and clarity, adding an amp will not do it. The additional amp is still not going to sound any better than the receiver's preamp section will allow. Your signal must be the best it can starting at the front end of your system and then maintain that signal the best you can until it reaches your speakers. If you have a separate preamp and power amp, you will gain a larger improvement by upgrading the preamp verses the power amp.

    A couple of suggestions if you are going to buy a new amp. Arcam makes one of the best sounding surround receivers I have ever heard. It is the best of both world's A/V and music. They have one that costs about $1,200. and are coming out with a new one at $2,000. that is supposed to be just awesome. More power and features than the $1,200. version. Instead of buying an add on amp, why not buy the preamp and use the receiver's power amp section until you can buy a power amp? The Rotel RSP-1066 for about $1,500. is a good bang for the buck. Other than this piece good A/V preamps are very costly.

    Are you coming out of your DVD player through the digital out into the receiver? This offers best results for sound usually. There may be other set up things to check that may improve your sound. Maybe give an idea what exactly you don't like and what other gear you use. Proper set up is of a system is critical.

  9. #9
    RGA
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    I agree with Mr. Peabody on the switchto Onkyo to Yamaha. Nothing to be gained sound quality wise. Hi Fi Choice listened with a blind panel and Onkyo seemes to do better than Yamaha...though not these specific units under test.

    I won't however just agree here on the Arcam. In fact the Arcam AVR 200 faired the worst of all receivers in its test in What Hi Fi getting a terrible 2 stars out of 5.

    While it may sound better musically the amp is underpowered and not up to snuff on surround material - and frankly to home theater buffs is out of date.

    Depending on the speakers a power amp can most certainly help. I had the Flagship Pioneer Elite rated at 125 watt RMS .00025%THD and it completely ruined bass lines with my horn loaded 95db 8 ohm(in other words very damn easy to drive) speakers.

    In fact I took home a Bryston 3B for a weekend and that was when I realised that the so called High End flagship recievers were simply mid fi with high pricing and lots of extra gadgets.

    If your receiver has the jacks go and borrow a demp power amp from a reasonably good brand like Adcom or Rotel or Bryston. Try it over a weekend on your speakers. Then decide. If you're impressed as I was then look for used power amps.

    Receivers today are helping you out with the preouts - they help you eventually get to separates in stages.

    The preamp would make MORE of a diffrence - and some receivers have better power amp sections than others.

    http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1014
    http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=1014
    http://www.hifichoice.co.uk/review_read.asp?ID=2180

    These are all older models but frankly I would not want to part with an Onkyo for any of the others unless there was some feature you absolutely needed.

  10. #10
    F1
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariannes504
    Our entire budget is categorized for a home theater projector, speakers, dvd player & better receiver. Probably going to upgrade speakers to Paradigm Studio but this is a seperate budget item.

    Prior advice suggested go with seperates but the little research I have done it seems I am out of my budget to buy both pre amp & amp. So I thought maybe I could start something I could build on and get an amp for my current receiver and later when I recoup I could add the pre amp. Will this help get purer sound or should I just stick to a better receiver?
    I still stick to my previous suggestion. Buy the best speakers/subwoofer you can afford now and install the system with your current receiver. Paradigm Studio should be a good choice btw. If you are not happy with the system come back to this forum again to see what can be improved. You don't really need to buy everything at one go. Please note that system setup, proper speaker placement and room accoustics can greatly influence the system performance. Get these things right first and think about the equipment upgrading. Mid-fi equipment can sound awesome if properly setup.
    Good luck.

  11. #11
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    Words of wisdom (paraphrased)

    Quote Originally Posted by F1
    Buy the best speakers/subwoofer you can afford now and install the system with your current receiver.... If you are not happy with the system come back to this forum again to see what can be improved...Get these things right first and think about the equipment upgrading.
    Many of us have spent lots of money to attain a certain goal only to learn that we didn't HAVE to spend lots of money to attain that particular goal.

    You might well benefit from others experiences.

  12. #12
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    When I first started this project I had no doubts that I would stick with Onkyo Receivers. After Posting a thread on Home Theater I finally started to think maybe Yamaha had something better because everyone said the parametric room calibration was the best. Then I was guided toward seperates which everyone agrees is the best way to go. I checked out the Lexicon site and found out I'm way out of my price range. I think I got off track. I don't have the money or the building power to go with seperates at this time. So I think I'll start back at the beginning and just find the best receiver for my home theater room. Is it the Onkyo Line of the Onkyo Integra line??? Does Integra really make a better receiver than the same level Onkyo?

    I'm probably going to purchase the Paradigm Studio Speakers.

    Appreciate the input!

  13. #13
    F1
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariannes504
    When I first started this project I had no doubts that I would stick with Onkyo Receivers. After Posting a thread on Home Theater I finally started to think maybe Yamaha had something better because everyone said the parametric room calibration was the best. Then I was guided toward seperates which everyone agrees is the best way to go. I checked out the Lexicon site and found out I'm way out of my price range. I think I got off track. I don't have the money or the building power to go with seperates at this time. So I think I'll start back at the beginning and just find the best receiver for my home theater room. Is it the Onkyo Line of the Onkyo Integra line??? Does Integra really make a better receiver than the same level Onkyo?

    I'm probably going to purchase the Paradigm Studio Speakers.

    Appreciate the input!
    Integra line suppose to have better components and processor inside compared to Onkyo line. But how much difference soundwise, it's really subjective. Only you can tell whether the price different is justified. The same thing can be said when comparing different brands. Your Onkyo 600 should be able to drive Paradigm Studio very well. Add a decent subwoofer say from Hsu, SVS or Adire and you're set.

    The thing is that now you don't know how this combination will work out in your room. If it turns out to be working very good then you save yourself a good money. If later you find some particular quality you want to improve, you can come back to this forum again with the details. I'm sure solution will be available. Don't worry now, just sit back and relax and start enjoy your system.
    Good luck.

  14. #14
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    The Arcam AVR-200 is a great sounding piece. I wouldn't say it's out dated but it doesn't offer all the latest 7.1 etc. Myself I feel that is unnecessary and a waste of money. There aren't any real 7.1 movies. The new Arcam receiver will meet the challenge, so I'm told.

    Lexicon is a giant step from a receiver. You can buy separates for less money than Lexicon and still improve quite nicely over the sound of a receiver. Look at the Rotel stuff. It offers good value. However, Rotel nor Adcom is in the same league with Bryston. Also give a listen to the Anthem. I thought it sounded pretty good. Their amps weren't strong in the bass on the system I heard which happened to be driven Paradigm Studios. But the sound was good and a sub will help in the bass. I believe their preamp processor runs about $3k with everything imaginable including built in headphone amp and auto setup mode. Anthem amps are reasonably priced. I think they have 2 lines though, a good and best type thing.

    My experience is the Integra is better than the straight Onkyo. No shell game there.

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