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  1. #1
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    Need advice, please!

    I am running a pair of Linn Ninkas in a small, poured concrete room, and they're a lot of speaker for that application -- especially at the low end. I'm satisfied with my choice of preamp (an old Rotel 995) but the choice of amplification is quickly becoming the bane of my existence. I've tried a Parasound Halo A23 (too brittle), a Linn AV-5105 (way too boomy at the bottom, though my best friend loves it for his Katans), and a Rotel RB-981 (too brittle AND too boomy, at the same time!).

    Now here's the interesting part: right now I'm running an Arcam A-60 as my power (the control stage doesn't work but I've still got the Rotel preamp) and it sounds wonderful -- despite the fact that my friend paid $2 for it at a garage sale. The detail, in particular, is as clean and clear as I've ever heard on anything. The only trouble is, first, it's way too small and clips all the time, and, second, sometimes it doesn't actually work at all -- it will just go completely dead.

    I need some advice before I go back to buying everything under a thousand bucks and hoping I can re-sell them all. I've considered trying a Bryston 2B, a Quad 909, a beefier Arcam, a newer Rotel, something by Acurus or Aragon, a Bel Canto, an Onkyo M-504/508/510, or a Naim.

    The key characteristics of the amp are: 1) not overpowering at the bottom, since the rest of the system is already; 2) exemplary in the area of micro-details like fingers squeaking across guitar strings; 3) musical across the whole spectrum without any obvious roll-off at the top.

    Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated -- particularly any reactions that would narrow the list of candidates described above. I've had lots of mechanical problems so I'm loathe to try tube gear (not that tube gear necessarily fails, mechanically, BEYOND having to periodically replace the tubes), and I can't spend a lot more than I'll get by selling what I have now, which means anything over about $700 is pushing the envelope.

    author@escpaeclause.net

  2. #2
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    Update -- the search would seem to be narrowing down to four integrated amps that are all over the map, price-wise: the PS-Audio GSC-100, the Arcam FMJ-A22 with DAVE module, a used Linn Classik, and the Onkyo A-9555. I know that sounds crazy, and it's a long story, but anyone care to comment on the tradeoff between sound and money, with those four?

  3. #3
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    If you like the Arcam sound,as i do,why go anywhere else.That FMJ should be very nice.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  4. #4
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    I agree, if you don't want to go on the audio merry-go-round just go with what you know is going to work, the Arcam.

    If you have a way to listen to it the Onkyo 9555 is supposed to be a giant killer. It is a Class D amp section yet Onkyo still makes it to more than double it's power into 4 ohms.

  5. #5
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    Bought the Arcam late yesterday afternoon -- will add an Onkyo to the stable (at minimal financial risk, since resale is so strong) if the Arcam doesn't sound as good as I'm fully expecting it to.

    So, next question: does anyone know how these DAVE modules are supposed to work? I seem to want to think they allow for playing of a 5.1 signal through a 2.0 system with no loss of content, but I could be woefully mistaken and it would be nice to know before the thing gets here.

  6. #6
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    What Arcam amp did you get? The last time I heard of DAV it was additional amplification that turned a 2 channel into a 5 channel. That was a while back. I don't believe it's current.

    If you get both amps, be sure to let us know how the 9555 compares.

  7. #7
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    The Arcam I bought is the FMJ-A22 and the DAVE module definitely has something to do with 5.1 sound, but I'm fuzzy on the details. It's clear that, with the DAVE unit, you can plug a second Arcam (presumably the FMJ P-25-3) into the rear apron of the A22, and have instant 5.1 sound without buying a processor. What isn't clear is what happens when you try to run a 5.1 signal into an A22 alone, and thence only to 2 speakers. I was rather hoping that the DAVE module down-mixes the 5.1 signal back to 2.0, so I could finally start hearing the dialogue in movies again -- but now I'm not so sure.

  8. #8
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    The A22 does not come with a DAVE module. Did the one you bought have it installed?

    The FMJ A22 is the upgraded version of the Alpha 10, here's a link with a little info:
    http://www.arcam.co.uk/alpha/cinema/cindave.html

  9. #9
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    The particular unit I bought had the DAVE module already installed, yes. I'll read the link -- thank you!

  10. #10
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    That's a plus. I'm sure the P3 would be the optimum but I wonder if you could use any 3 channel amp with it. I'm sure most of these questions will be answered when you get your hands on the unit. What CD player are you using? Some years back I had a Alpha 9 CD player and auditioned the Alpha 10 integrated with it in my home. This was a magical combination. At the time I felt I needed more power and opted for the Krell 300i and hence a whole chain of hi fi events.

    You may be able to use the digital decoder in 2 channel but if you went with any surround mode you'd be missing information without an amp/speakers for the additional channels.

  11. #11
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    I use a Sony HDMI-upconverting DVD player (DVP-NS70H) and a 50" Panasonic plasma TV (TH-50PX60U). Both of these devices appears to have at least one sub-menu for toggling between 2.0 and 5.1 -- indeed the DVD player would seem to have three such places. There's a "setup" menu that you can access when there is no disc in the tray, then a "mode" you can select while the movie is playing back, and then a button on the remote that says "surround" and seems to toggle through a series of emulation algorithms. This isn't counting the TV, into which the RCA cables for the DVD player currently run.

    What's been so frustrating for me is that I can spend all day long goofing with all of those different menus and still not hear a DVD that was recorded in 5.1 very well through my 2.0 system. I'm under the impression that it should be possible -- indeed easy -- but at this point I'm just thoroughly frustrated. I'd somehow gotten the impression that the DAVE module would clean this up (I was using the term "down-mix" with the salesman, which didn't make the conversation go any more smoothly), but now my concern is that it will do just the opposite: leave me with one more opportunity for the electronics to think there are 5.1 speakers out there to play signal through.

    I know this has nothing to do with the original thread but I'd be really grateful if you had any counsel.

  12. #12
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    The fmj comes with what is known as the multichannel input board and it only gives 2 multichannel analog inputs.Not the same as the DAVE at all.Btw using that Sony as a cd player is holding the rest of your system back.Invest in a good cd player first.

    bill
    Speakers-Jm Labs
    Disc player-Sim Audio Moon Calypso
    Pre-amp-Sim Audio P-5.3 SE
    dac= sim audio moon 300d

    Amp-Sim Audio Moon I-3
    Display-Toshiba CRT
    Wires and Cables-Kimber,Straight Wire, ixos, Gutwire and shunyata research
    Sacd-Cambridge Audio
    Bluray--Sony and Cambridge Audio
    Remote-- Harmony 1100

    Power-- Monster

  13. #13
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    My FMJ has a DAVE installed.

  14. #14
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    Here's a Stereophile review of the Arcam FMJ-A22 without the DAVE, but the reviewer is careful to point out that the DAVE is fully compatible with this unit.

    http://stereophile.com/integratedamps/400arcam/

    Cheers.

  15. #15
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    ...and no, I'm not using the Sony as a CD-player. My CD-player is a Linn Mimik. Since we were talking about 5.1 sound, I figured it went without saying that we were dealing with video playback, not CD -- sorry!

  16. #16
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    If you are using the L/R analog outs of your DVD into the TV you will always get 2.0. When no disc is in set the DVD to 2.0. The discs themselves should default to 2.0 automatically but just to be sure, access the discs menu once it's loaded and make sure it is set to 2.0. You can't get 5.1 out of the stereo analog out. The only way to get 5.1 is with the digital out or the 5.1 analog out. Sometimes the DVD players will offer some virtual surround modes for 2 channel. Once you are sure everything is set correctly you can try some of them to see if any help. You may want to review your owners manual to see if it gives you and idea of what the modes are for. If I'm not mistaken your DVD player will only do 2.0 via the HDMI. You should use one or the other, analog or HDMI, not both into your TV. If you are not hearing the voices well for some reason you can try adjusting the tone controls on your TV. Other than that I am at a loss.

    Your DVD player will down mix 5.1 into 2.0 when 2.0 is selected. If you use the L/R stereo out of the DVD into the Arcam you will only get 2.0. If you connect using digital you should get 5.1, but every surround receiver or processor I've seen has a stereo setting for the digital inputs. If you don't want the extra amps or speaker you will be fine with 2.0.

    I have noticed when watching DVD's through my TV upstairs, this is using HDMI into the TV, that with the dynamic range of the soundtracks that when listening to the dialog at a reasonable level that when the action starts, it's much louder. Most DVD players have a "night" mode inside their menu. This feature compresses the soundtrack some so that all the sound is closer in volume. This may be something you want to try as well to see if it helps.

  17. #17
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    This is how spotty my knowledge in this stuff is: I didn't know that the HDMI cable carried audio signal as well as video. So I've started there -- with disconnecting the red and white RCA audio lines from the player to the TV; THANK YOU. There's still a problem with 5.1 source material, but the overall sound is greatly improved. Next step after that is to read the manuals, I guess. Obviously you don't get 5.1 channels of signal from two wires coming out of a piece of equipment, but when the source material is recorded 5.1 there's something either happening that shouldn't or not happening that should, to muddy the sound.

  18. #18
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    Don't get caught up on a disc being 5.1. Many people just hook a DVD to a TV. The DVD player is designed and very capable of doing 2.0 and not losing any sound. Just be sure the player is set internally to 2.0 or analog out.

    Describe what problem you are having. Honestly, it is very uncommon for anyone to have a player try to do 5.1 into a 2.0 set up. I'm wondering if the players just send the signal to the analog outs anyway because I've thrown players into my kids rooms in a 2.0 to the TV without any setting up and it just seems to do it.

    You are going HDMI into your TV, and then what's the rest of your set up?

  19. #19
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    HDMI only to TV -- thanks to your earlier post! -- then just two (L&R) RCA-outs from the TV to the "video" inputs on my Rotel preamp. So, as far as that goes, nothing is hooked up with five wires to five sockets, so there's no way that any of the sound can be "dropped on the floor". It has to be something involving all of those wacky internal settings -- I just can't figure out which. Would it be okay if I took some digital photos of the various screen menus and posted them? Maybe you could tell just at a glance that I've got something set up improperly. As I said, my real concern is that adding this Arcam (due to arrive on Thursday! Yea!) will layer-on another set of virtual switches for me to fudge-up because I'm such a retard.

  20. #20
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    ...And by "video" inputs on the Rotel I don't, of course, mean to imply that I'm hooking red and white audio outputs on the TV to yellow inputs on a preamp -- I mean that the input selector designates this particular audio input as "video".

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogorman
    ...And by "video" inputs on the Rotel I don't, of course, mean to imply that I'm hooking red and white audio outputs on the TV to yellow inputs on a preamp -- I mean that the input selector designates this particular audio input as "video".
    Wooo... I'm glad you cleared that up. I don't see well so I don't think your pictures will help me but some one else here may pick something up.

    Is the TV audio out "fixed" or "variable"? If you are using the Rotel for volume control, you should be using a fixed output. Try an experiment and go from your DVD's analog audio out to see if the sound is better or you have the same problem. If it's the same problem, I don't know what to think, maybe try a different set of cables and check the settings on the Rotel. Once you have the Arcam, if possible you should use a digital connection for audio. Most likely if your TV has HDMI, it probably has a digital audio out.

  22. #22
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    Right now the audio is being carried by the HDMI cable -- are you suggesting that I not use that when the Arcam gets here? I'll post the pics tomorrow.

  23. #23
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    You can still use HDMI for when you are just watching TV and not the system on. Or, your TV may offer a digital out you can take advantage of. In most A/V set ups people do not put the TV in the audio path. You should take the audio directly to your amp, now, and, with the Arcam. I'd suggest using a digital connection to the Arcam because it will have a great D to A converter in it and should give you some good sound, way better than you'd pick up from a TV.

  24. #24
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    I have a digital output on both my DVD player and my TV, but won't have a digital input to connect it to until the Arcam gets here, projected for the end of this week. This brings me back to my earlier concern in a big way, though, since the 5.1 signal can travel over a digital out, which means that I'm going to mess something up and not be able to hear anything.

    If I'm understanding the state of the discussion, it's this: 1) Run HDMI from the DVD player to the TV and no yellow RCA patch-cords to the analog video input. 2) Run digital audio cable (where do I get a good one and how much should it cost?) from the DVD player directly to the Arcam. 3) Set the DVD player for 2.0 sound. 4) ...What about settings for the Arcam?

  25. #25
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    ...I also registered myself for an AV/Home Theater forum and posted the same question there -- perhaps I should start a new thread over in the home theater section of these forums, too?

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