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  1. #1
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    Help with Amp/Receiver Comparisons

    I want to see what people think of the following receiver's amp sections, and how they compare to amps such as Rotel, B&K, Bryston, Parasound, Parasound Halo, Arcam, Odyssey, Anthem, ATI, NAD.

    I know for the most part that above amps provide more current and, generally, higher wattage. What is the difference in sound quality (i.e. warm, dark, bright, neutral, veiled, crisp, detailed, accurate, microdynamics, etc.) between some of the above amps and:

    Yamaha RX-V2400
    Denon AVR-3805
    Arcam AVR-300

    How do these receivers compare to each other, and how to they stack up against the amps?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicguy04
    I want to see what people think of the following receiver's amp sections, and how they compare to amps such as Rotel, B&K, Bryston, Parasound, Parasound Halo, Arcam, Odyssey, Anthem, ATI, NAD.

    I know for the most part that above amps provide more current and, generally, higher wattage. What is the difference in sound quality (i.e. warm, dark, bright, neutral, veiled, crisp, detailed, accurate, microdynamics, etc.) between some of the above amps and:

    Yamaha RX-V2400
    Denon AVR-3805
    Arcam AVR-300

    How do these receivers compare to each other, and how to they stack up against the amps?

    They are all good amps. All depends on the speakers needs, its impedance characteristics and sensitivity which amp may serve you better.
    However, if all those amps were driven within their design capability, no reason why they would sound different. That simple.

    Of course, if these are driven withing their design limits, no reason why they would sound different when bias is not a controlling factor.
    mtrycrafts

  3. #3
    Forum Regular 46minaudio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mtrycraft
    They are all good amps. All depends on the speakers needs, its impedance characteristics and sensitivity which amp may serve you better.
    However, if all those amps were driven within their design capability, no reason why they would sound different. That simple.

    Of course, if these are driven withing their design limits, no reason why they would sound different when bias is not a controlling factor.
    I agree.However the Yamaha and Denon have a parametric eq for taming the room..

  4. #4
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    Well, I haven't auditioned any of the above amps except the Yamaha, but I do notice there's a definite improvement in sound quality using it. I had a late 90's DPL Sony and replaced it (auditioned) with the Yamaha and I noticed an improvement all across the board. To take away any notions of bias, some of my friends noticed an improvement in sound quality and clarity and commented on it before I even told them about the receiver change. The Sony sounded muddy and sloppy compared to the Yamaha.

    I'm not really all that into PEQ but if it's an added bonus I'll take it. Primarily I'm trying to compare between the Yamaha RX-V2400 (which needs to go back very soon if I don't want it), the Denon AVR-3805, and the Arcam AVR-300. I can't afford separates right now, and would like to hold off needing an external power amp as long as possible.

    I'm particularly looking for comments on the different types of sound (quality, tone, clarity, yada yada) of the amp sections in the three receivers.

    Also, I'll probably get decent speakers such as B&W N804 in December. Which of the receivers, if any, would drive them properly?

    Mrtycraft, if you read this, I'd very much like to know what system you use. I agree on you with cables, but I'd like to know especially what speakers you use and also what the rest of your system is.

  5. #5
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    Question need pre/pro and amp help.....

    I am looking for a pre/pro and amp to replace my Marantz sr8000 av receiver. I have polk LSI 15's maians, LSIC center, and LSI Fx surrounds. My sub is a Def tech super cube Reference. i listen to movies and music 50/50. I need a pre/pro and amp that will go well with my system. HELP!!!!!!!!!

    P.S. Budget is $5-6k.
    Last edited by krich644; 07-29-2004 at 07:07 AM. Reason: typo

  6. #6
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krich644
    I am looking for a pre/pro and amp to replace my Marantz sr8000 av receiver. I have polk LSI 15's maians, LSIC center, and LSI Fx surrounds. My sub is a Def tech super cube Reference. i listen to movies and music 50/50. I need a pre/pro and amp that will go well with my system. HELP!!!!!!!!!

    P.S. Budget is $5-6k.
    Krich,

    You should delete this and start a new thread. This is a good question but you shouldn't hijack musicguy's thread. Etiquette and all that.

  7. #7
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    topspeed,

    I was hoping you'd comment on my question. You seem to know a lot about amps.

  8. #8
    Suspended topspeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by musicguy04
    I want to see what people think of the following receiver's amp sections, and how they compare to amps such as Rotel, B&K, Bryston, Parasound, Parasound Halo, Arcam, Odyssey, Anthem, ATI, NAD.

    I know for the most part that above amps provide more current and, generally, higher wattage. What is the difference in sound quality (i.e. warm, dark, bright, neutral, veiled, crisp, detailed, accurate, microdynamics, etc.) between some of the above amps and:

    Yamaha RX-V2400
    Denon AVR-3805
    Arcam AVR-300

    How do these receivers compare to each other, and how to they stack up against the amps?
    The main advantage the separates will bring to the table are far better power supplies, transformers, and likely better parts under the hood. Wattage ratings are fairly useless so don't get caught up in them. Remember, it takes twice the wattage to effect a 3dB increase. Therefore the difference between a 125wpc amp and 150wpc amp is nearly inaudible. However, the power supplies and parts superiority will be readily apparent, especially on demanding music with lots of transients.

    The differences in the three receivers you've chosen are subtle at best. They are all good and your choice will likely depend more on feature content and reliability than sound. If HT is your main purpose, I'd just buy whichever has the features I want at the lowest price. If music is more important to you, I'd choose "none of the above," save my pennies, and drive those Nauts with a respectable amp with some gravitas. A receiver just isn't going to allow the Nauts to reach their full potential, especially if you go multi-channel thereby severly taxing the power supply. Trust me on this and learn from my expensive mistakes.

    Which amp to choose is up to you. This is what I did: Get an spl meter, test disc, couple of friends, and barrier of some sorts. Get all the amps you are considering and have one of your friends switch the amps out while you and another friend(s) are in another room. Hide the amps so you don't know what is playing, level match w/ the meter and test disc, play some music for awhile, take notes, and repeat. Some would recommend keeping the other amps playing on a secondary system (no biggie, a portable cd player will do. It's merely to keep the amps charged so you are hearing them at their optimum level). At the end, compare your notes and have the designated amp switcher reveal the winner. If you can't hear a difference, pick whichever is cheapest, has the best warranty, or whatever is the most important to you. I had great fun doing this, of course the wine didn't hurt either .

    Hope this helps.

  9. #9
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=musicguy04]...
    I'll probably get decent speakers such as B&W N804 in December. Which of the receivers, if any, would drive them properly?
    ...QUOTE]

    Any of the receivers you mentioned should drive B&W N804 adequatly in terms of power and load. But you'll realize the N804's are a relatively expensive (and high quality) speakers: I'd say that you would benefit from even better amplification than these receivers can provide.

    Is it a stereo set-up you're looking for, or multi-channel? If stereo, give careful consideration to stereo integrateds or even separates in your price range.

  10. #10
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Agree, Topspeed. Good advice

    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    ... If HT is your main purpose, I'd just buy whichever has the features I want at the lowest price. If music is more important to you, I'd choose "none of the above," ... A receiver just isn't going to allow the Nauts to reach their full potential...
    The price N804's would be your "dominant" component: treat them to serious amplifier.

  11. #11
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    Hi Musicguy,

    Just wanted to let you know that the August What Hi Fi has a group test on receivers which includes your three choices. All three are considered top notch but they pick the Yamaha as best by a small margin. Maybe reading this article will help clarify your thinking if you are set on buying a good home theater receiver. As far as going to the other amps you mention, I don't really know what improvements you might get but Topspeed and Feanor make a lot of sense to me. Is it possible for you to audition the B&W speakers now with some of your receiver or amp choices? This could help choose your amplification now if you don't want to wait until you get your speakers although, frankly, patience might be your best choice and might give you more money to work with when the time comes.

  12. #12
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    Hey Feanor,

    How do like your eVo? What are your impressions compared to your previous amp?

  13. #13
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Smile 'Way, 'way better

    Quote Originally Posted by topspeed
    How do like your eVo? What are your impressions compared to your previous amp?
    My previous was a NAD C270 in combo with an old Apt Holman pre-amp. And I'm reasonably certain that the NAD was the weaker link.

    The Bel Canto integrated is better in every way:
    = More detailed, e.g. better able to separate instruments and voices.
    = More spatial information, i.e. more precise imaging, greater depth, more realistic soundstage.
    = Better tonal balance, i.e. subjectively more extended on the top end and less boosted in the lower mid bass.
    = Superior timbre, i.e. harmonics of various instruments are more accurately reproduced.
    = Tighter bass.

    That about does it! My faith is restored: I was starting to wonder whether modern amps really did sound all the same. NOT !!

    I paid Cdn$3000, say US$2300, which might be high for our poster but definitely worth it with a speaker such as the N804.

  14. #14
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    The main purposes of getting a new receiver/ processor is to get better sound from digital sources (CD player and satellite system). I will get a decent amp to drive the nauts in December. No problem there. I'm pretty happy with how the Yamaha sounds with movies. I'm sure it'll sound better with the B&W, but it's pretty good now.

    I did get to audition my dad's B&W CDM 1SE's last weekend, and those things were awesome! That further confirmed my B&W taste, but I'll still look around.

    I'm not happy with the music sound from my DVD player using either the CD analog ouputs or the Yamaha's internal DAC. I was thinking about getting an Arcam CD73. My DVD player has both toslink and coaxial outputs. I'm thinking an external DAC might be the way to go.

    How good is the Benchmark DAC1? It seems to have the features I want. I'm hoping that'll make an improvment. Are you guys familiar with it? I might just hold on to the Yamaha and add a DAC, since it's the cheapest of all the receivers and seems to do it's job pretty well.

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