Tube amp question

[cyto]

Will a tube amp and a solid state amp with the same wattage rating give the same end volume?

[02audionoob]

Without getting deep into the topic...the same amount of power from either amp technology is equally loud. Some people say the tube amp sounds twice or even three times as loud, but that wouldn't be a scientific fact when measured at equal distortion levels. It would be a perception based on the difference in the way the distortion from the two amps would sound.

[atomicAdam]

it also depends on how the attenuators of each amplifier are designed.

if the solid state is logarithmic while the tube is linear - they won't sound the same at the same position.

generally speaking - i believe - though other my chime in or disagree - if a speaker says - i need 100-200w to operate well - a tube amplifier under the 100W to some degree should be able to equally well drive the speaker as a 100W solid state.

salksound.com gives different tube vs. solid state ratings for their speakers.

[Mr Peabody]

Yeah, I've always heard a tube amp at the same watt rating will sound nearly twice as loud as a solid state. But really, who can say because we'd never be able to compare apples to apples. No matter the technology it comes down to an amps design. For example, a receiver 100 watts isn't going to sound as powerful... as say a Krell 100 watts. I've also seen a 40 watt Octave Audio drive a set of Dynaudio C1's which I don't know of many others that could do it. I'm talking "drive" not just getting sound from them. I've also seen an ARC VT-100 drive a set of Martin Logan Requests which there aren't too many 100 watt solid state amps I'd try that with.

[woofersus]

I'm not totally sure why tube watts seem to be subjectively "bigger," but I've encountered this phenomenon as well. I've heard some claim that the superior amount of capacitance allows for a smaller number of continuous wattage handle transients much better, which makes said lower wattage seem higher than a solid state amp that provides a higher continuous wattage but lesser peaks. I don't know if that's really whats going on or not though.

Consideration should be made, however, to the fact that wattage ratings listed in the specs are generally not the whole story. Continuous vs. peak wattage, for example WILL vary from amp to amp - not to mention the fact that some manufacturers rate their products more conservatively than others.

[RGA]

I don't really pay much attention to the watt rating since if you have remotely decent sensitivity and efficiency in the loudspeaker you probably won't need a lot of power. Tubes distort in a less bothersome way and that is why they sound louder because you can play it in distortion - when SS clips you need to turn the volume down.

One of Stereophile's technical writer's Peter Van Willenswaard discusses why tube amps sound louder - amongst other things in this article

http://www.stereophile.com/features/357/index.html

[Feanor]

Will a tube amp and a solid state amp with the same wattage rating give the same end volume?

What is the relevance of this question when quality solid state amps 10x more powerful than tube amps are available for the same price?

[cyto]

No relevance, I had always heard that tubes were "louder" than solid state and thought I would pose a query as I did not see how this could be possible (I was a TV repairman in the 70's tube tv days).

[E-Stat]

No relevance, I had always heard that tubes were "louder" than solid state and thought I would pose a query as I did not see how this could be possible (I was a TV repairman in the 70's tube tv days).

It has to do with the fact that tube amps generally clip more gracefully and can be driven harder without sounding brittle and harsh.

rw

[harley .guy07]

I agree with E Stat on this one. Watt ratings are somewhat loose ratings done by the manufacturer that tests an amp with pink noise usually on an oscilloscope to see how many watts of power it can produce for short millisecond burst"peak power" and longer periods of time"rms" power. When the sign wave squares off then it is in clipping and you are passed peak clean power. I really don't think that tube amps are more powerful at 20 watts than SS at 100 watts rated if they are rated the same way and based on the same way of rating but Tubes clip so much softer and gracefully than transistors that you could actually clip a tube amp for a while and not really even notice it. On the flip side of this when Solid state clips it makes yours ears turn tail and run the other direction. What it comes down to is that in the real world we only use a small percent of our amplifiers power in most day to day listening and that usually is in the single digit or double digit numbers and we hardly unless we are really cranking it up with some hard to drive speakers break into triple digit figures.

[Feanor]

It has to do with the fact that tube amps generally clip more gracefully and can be driven harder without sounding brittle and harsh.

rw

This is likely true. But it is hardly a reason to buy a tube amp given, as I implied, you can buy a much more powerful s/s amp that isn't going to clip. Of course there are other reasons for buy a tube amp in the opinions of many people.

[E-Stat]

Of course there are other reasons for buy a tube amp in the opinions of many people.

I was merely answering the question. I don't know of anyone who touts buying a tube amp merely because of its clipping characteristics. That's certainly not why I've chosen tube gear for thirty years, especially small signal components where the *alleged* benefit of lower distortion for SS doesn't exist.

rw