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  1. #1
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    Krell vs Musical Fidelity

    Are there any of you guys who happen to know the comparison between these two integrated amps?

    KRELL KAV 400Xi vs Musical Fidelity A5?

    How is the sonic comparison? The characteristics?

    My listening preference are:
    40% jazz music such as David Benoit, Diana Krall, Dave Koz, etc.
    40% DVD movies, mainly actions.(yup, I decided to use integrated amp to watch DVD instead of receivers).
    20% pop music and other genre

    Based on my preferences, which of those two integrated amp would you recomend? Thanks a lot!

    Yon Wu

  2. #2
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Only a moron would tell you which one is better. It all depends on the rest of the chain and what preamp and speakers you have. Whats sitting in your house?
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    Only a moron would tell you which one is better. It all depends on the rest of the chain and what preamp and speakers you have. Whats sitting in your house?
    Hi Florian, These are the equipment that is sitting in my house.

    -B&W DM 604 S3, which I will upgrade to B&W Nautilus 804 in near future
    -Ixos gamma speaker cable
    -Rotel RDV 1040 DVD Player
    -Rotel RCD 1072 CD Player
    -No preamps, I intend to use only integrated amps in the meantime.

    Your inputs please...thanks

  4. #4
    Pat
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    Both are beautiful pieces of equipment from what I've seen. The only one I heard and played with a few times at the dealer is the Krell and it sounds very powerful. Some day I may still end up with the Krell Integrated in black for my large Klipsch speakers.

    ...that's about all I know,

    Welcome to the Forum!
    Have a good day.....Sez' Pat
    Denon 685 Receiver & 2900 Player, Sonographe 120 Amp, Klipsch RF7 Speakers, 2039+ svs Sub, 10gauge solid core copper cables

  5. #5
    Silence of the spam Site Moderator Geoffcin's Avatar
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    I'm partial to Musical Fidelity gear

    Quote Originally Posted by yon_wu
    Are there any of you guys who happen to know the comparison between these two integrated amps?

    KRELL KAV 400Xi vs Musical Fidelity A5?

    How is the sonic comparison? The characteristics?

    My listening preference are:
    40% jazz music such as David Benoit, Diana Krall, Dave Koz, etc.
    40% DVD movies, mainly actions.(yup, I decided to use integrated amp to watch DVD instead of receivers).
    20% pop music and other genre

    Based on my preferences, which of those two integrated amp would you recomend? Thanks a lot!

    Yon Wu
    I'm running my Musical Fidelity A3cr amp right now with my Axiom M80ti speakers and it's a wonderful match. Krell also makes outstanding amps, so it's going to come down to YOUR musical preference.
    Audio;
    Ming Da MC34-AB 75wpc
    PS Audio Classic 250. 500wpc into 4 ohms.
    PS Audio 4.5 preamp,
    Marantz 6170 TT Shure M97e cart.
    Arcam Alpha 9 CD.- 24 bit dCS Ring DAC.
    Magnepan 3.6r speakers Oak/black,

  6. #6
    RGA
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    I really like the 604S3 -- I would personally not be too quick to upgrade to the N804 -- the difference in price is very large and the sound difference just isn't -- some dealers set-up the 604 badly and the N804 well to make it seem that way but be real careful.

    As for the amps in question it will depend on which one you think sounds better with B&W -- the krell could be better with some speakers and the MF could be. Interestingly, I found the best sound that I ever heard from a B&W N801 was from an 11 watt NuVista or something tube integrated which was about 10k - but I preferred it to other sessions when they rand Classe, Krell or MF or Bryston. The downside to the amp was that beyond a certain loudness level the amp just could not drive them acceptably. Though in it's loudness level there was more space and it was the only time the speakers dissapeared in any of my sessions.

    I would try if you can some tube amplifiers of reasonable drive from ASL or Jolida -- and when upgrading the B&W's you want to maybe talk to Jack Gribble on Audioasylum as he used to own the B&W N804's -- he had some interesting results which you may want to know about if you're going to spend a lot of money. many of the problems with a number of speakers are blamed on the amplifiers and it is really important to know which is causing what before you throw money at the problem when it turns out that it was not what you thought.

    Nothing wrong with doing movies through two channels -- two good channels is better than 5.1 annoying ones.

  7. #7
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    I am partial to Krell myself, they excel in dynamics, detail, bass & bass control. I haven't heard the MF. Hopefully there is a way for you to audition these in your system. A feature for you to look at in the Krell is the "Theater Through", this allows you to run a processor or main preamp outs of a A/V receiver into it and use the 400xi as a slave to drive the mains in a HT set up. So you can have the Krell and a 2 channel system as well as tie it into a HT system.

    I personally find Rotel gear to be pleasant sounding but laid back in their presentation. Rotel made CD's I'm familiar with sound sluggish. The Krell leans toward the other end, I wouldn't call Krell aggressive and I've never become fatigued listening to it but it puts a snap and slam to the presentation you might not appreciate if you are really into the Rotel sound. Then again, the 2 may meet some where in the middle and make sweet music together.

    www.spearitsound.com did have a 400xi on their "used & demo" link. They are pretty stingy with their return policy but some time is better than none. I really recommend trying before buying if at all possible.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Mmmh, personally i would choose the MF over the Krell. I have had a few Krells in my life like the KRC-2, KSA150 and 250. My friend has the KPS20T, X64 and 2 pairs of 250's and while they have incredible control and power they fail to differentiate the musical bass sound a bit too emotionaless. Krell and Klipsch would be a nightmare for me!!

    For the B&W i would choose the MF. For my Apogee bass panel i would like a KW of Krell please
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

  9. #9
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    Smile Thanks Pat!

    Quote Originally Posted by Pat
    Both are beautiful pieces of equipment from what I've seen. The only one I heard and played with a few times at the dealer is the Krell and it sounds very powerful. Some day I may still end up with the Krell Integrated in black for my large Klipsch speakers.

    ...that's about all I know,

    Welcome to the Forum!
    Hi Pat,
    Thank you for saying hi and for welcoming me to the forum!
    Yes, the Krell is so powerfull, after a short demo at the store of MF A5, it sounded good tho…sweet tonal, soft yet descriptive, sweet human vocal, a bit out of focus on the bass, but one can live with it. But too bad they don’t have a stock for Krell 400xi. I still curious about Krell, the salesman will give me a call sometime nx week when they have Krell available. Then I will audition both of them in my house for about 3 days.

    Anyway, I really like your Klipsch RF7. That’s one fine equipment.
    Today I had them demoed, driven by a pair of Krell monoblocks. I would keep them for a long time if I were you.

  10. #10
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    Thanks 4 d warning

    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    I really like the 604S3 -- I would personally not be too quick to upgrade to the N804 -- the difference in price is very large and the sound difference just isn't -- some dealers set-up the 604 badly and the N804 well to make it seem that way but be real careful.
    Thanks 4 the warning. The N804 was optional anyway. I still haven’t decided yet, between upgrading my speakers or my TV. Having your warning, I will be more cautios in audition for N804.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    I am partial to Krell myself, they excel in dynamics, detail, bass & bass control. I haven't heard the MF. Hopefully there is a way for you to audition these in your system.
    Yes, that's what I heard also from the vendor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Peabody
    I personally find Rotel gear to be pleasant sounding but laid back in their presentation. Rotel made CD's I'm familiar with sound sluggish.
    I just bought this Rotel cd player, when I got them demoed in the store, all I heard was great sounding, probably because it was played on the system I'm not familiar with. When I took it home, and played it on my system, I found it exactly like you've said, sluggish. More detailed and brighter than my old Denon DVD 700, but lack in presentation, or in your term: sluggish. So much for upgrading huh?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Peabody
    The Krell leans toward the other end, I wouldn't call Krell aggressive and I've never become fatigued listening to it but it puts a snap and slam to the presentation you might not appreciate if you are really into the Rotel sound. Then again, the 2 may meet some where in the middle and make sweet music together.
    The Krell sonic characteristics you mentioned above, are exactly what I'm looking for. No, I'm not into Rotel sound, the reason I bought it was - I'm a little embarased to admit - the Krell cd player is way more expensive than of Rotel. My logic was, instead of buying a very expensive cd player, I might better of buying a very nice integrated amps.

    Any solution to this problem will be appreciated.

    I really recommend trying before buying if at all possible.
    Couldn't agree more.

  12. #12
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    Florian, more specific pse

    Quote Originally Posted by Florian
    ...while they have incredible control and power they fail to differentiate the musical bass sound a bit too emotionaless.
    Could you be more specific, pse? I'm not sure I know what you mean.
    And what makes Krell and Klipsch made a terrible pair?
    Any explanation will be appreciated.

  13. #13
    Pat
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    The Klipsch speakers in general can be very revealing and with some equipment, the "horn" can come forward too much. It varies from system to system and includes everything from the amp to the source to the room itself. Of course on the other hand probably any brand of speaker can sound terrible with the wrong gear.

    I just chatted with a guy a few weeks ago who thought the RF7 or any speaker was an easy speaker to drive because of it's 100+ sensitivity. It is to a point....but this speakers bass driver drops down to 2.8 ohms and that's pretty low.

    I know a guy who is using the Krell integrated and the 7's and he loves it, his crossovers/networks are stock unlike mine that have been re-worked to change the sound a bit and "tame" the horn.

    Everybody's system is different.
    Have a good day.....Sez' Pat
    Denon 685 Receiver & 2900 Player, Sonographe 120 Amp, Klipsch RF7 Speakers, 2039+ svs Sub, 10gauge solid core copper cables

  14. #14
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    I'm with Florian on the Krell/Klipsch combo. I'm surprised some one didn't die driving Klipsch with Krell monoblocks The SPL levels could supply Yankee stadium. Aside from that, I tried a pair of Klipsch towers driven by the Krell 300i and it was horrible. The bass did not play low and the horns distorted beyond recognition when elevating volume to a high level. I'm not sure what the model was but they were almost 5 feet tall and had two 10" woofers with a horn. The 300i drove a pair of Infinity Kappa 7's just fine with no distortion and it also drove various models of Dynaudio, it was obviously the Klipsch. I was also very disappointed in the poor built quality of this model. Through the port in the back I could notice little to no internal bracing, cheap crossover, if you could call it that and no insulation. The Klipsch will play 3 to 4 times louder than the B&W with the same input power from an amp, that's the only thing Klipsch has going for it. So if you are into Metal and your amp always goes to 11, then maybe Klipsch would work for you. Then I'd say save some money and buy cheaper power.

    I'm from the school that it is better to buy a good source (cdp, turntable etc) and build from there. You are right though in that Krell cdp's are very expensive. Give a listen to some Arcam cd players. You could actually keep the Rotel and just get a D/A converter at some point, using the Rotel as your transport.

    I would concede that Krell has a lack of emotion but with my Dynaudio I haven't noticed any flaws in bass detail. I can plainly discern string bass from drum and various other textures. In modern music I can easily hear the various tones of the artificially produced rythyms.

    I'd recommend that when you audition just put on some of your favorite music and buy the one that gets you the most involved with the music. You may not like either one. Just relax and take your time. I like to pick a couple CD's for test listening and stick with them until you make a decision. I like to pick one or two things in the recording to concentrate on, once I hear it on both pieces then I'll play it again finding something else to zero in on. Like I might listen to vocals, then cymbals, then bass, all from the same song, playing it several times. You may have a different system but that's what I do. Hopefully, you've heard live music before. If your serious about the Klipsch just do some close listening and forget what the sales people are telling you. On the other hand if something about the Klipsch gives you a thrill, forget what, I, tell you.

  15. #15
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by yon_wu
    Thanks 4 the warning. The N804 was optional anyway. I still haven’t decided yet, between upgrading my speakers or my TV. Having your warning, I will be more cautios in audition for N804.
    It's not really a warning - the nautilus range i find overpriced but they are not junk by any means. I just believe that many companies believe that once they have you then you will stay with them...and they are probably correct in most cases. I talked to the owner of a long time GM Canada car dealer and he said the best car with the fewest problems overall that they sold was the Sprint (the lemon Aid will back up the stats as well) -- the idea was to get the first time buyer with a car that runs well with cheap to fix problems and fewer problems -- then when you are starting a family chances are you will go with one of their big cars - whcih cost not much if anymore to build but the profit margins rise. he said the more expensive their cars got the worse they got -- Lemon-Aid will back that up as well.

    Speakers like the B&W IMO offer the customer the best value from the 300 and 600 series and then there is an incline downward - the speakers though are better for the most part (though I would take your speaker over ANY of the 700 series speakers without qurestion - musically the 604S3 is simply far more enjoyable to listen to than the 703.

    I think companies like B&W expect that you a B&W owner will go to them for the upgrade without closely looking at others -- and most do -- I did. I had B&W and the first company I wanted to listen to when spending bigger money was B&W's N801 - and it turned out in my all day sessions with them that a couple of total no name companies came out well ahead. neither of them though make home theater speakers so if that is real important then the B&W N805's would have been a fine compromise and certainly one of the sexiest looking around.

  16. #16
    Forum Regular psonic's Avatar
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    Either should be fine, but why ask us to choose? Can you do an in-home demo? Have you tried any other names? My recommendation is to try some demos at your home, then decide. Many people like the sound of low-mid powered tube amps, others like high powered solid state. You may want to sample both and see how your speakers work with the amplifier in your house. A good dealer will let you do this, if the salesman does not, ask for the manager immediately. That would be your best bet. Go audition, then let us know how they sound. Cheers
    Dynaudio Audience 60
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    "hey dreaming it up accounts for half the fun - and time"

  17. #17
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    I just done a musical 180 and dropped Conrad Johnson separates in place of my Krell 500i. I will be looking to sell the 500i to help pay for my venture, if you are interested email me.

  18. #18
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    krell v. musical fidelity

    Generally, Krell is a better product. their amps are world class, especially the Fully power balance, class a driven amps. they are high-current amplifiers. their top of the line 2 channel and monoblocks are world-class. Musical Fidelity, generally, are not as expensive, except for the world-class "kW monoblocs", which are rated at 1000 watts into 8 ohms. very powerful amps.

    the Krell FPB 750cx monoblocks are rated at 750 watts @ 8 ohms, 1500 watts @ 4 ohms, and 3000 watts @ 2 ohms. They are Class A driven amps, which translates into the (generally) the best sounding amplifiers. however, they will get hot and are inefficient.

    but, for integrated, again Krell is considered a better amp, but musical fidelity makes a 500 watt per channel and 750 watt integrated amp. however, i do believe that they do not generate as much current as a Krell. Musical Fidelity may be bridged amps, meaning they are high voltage amps, but not high-current. higher current is paramount. it will drive a speaker much more efficiently than a bridged amp. but, a bridged amp will, generally, be less noisy (distortion). you have to take both units home and listen for yourself.

  19. #19
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    BY THE WAY, MY SYSTEM: BRYSTON 14B SST POWER AMP (600 WATTS/CHANNEL @ 8 OHMS. 900 WPC @ 4). IT IS A BRIDGED AMP AND WILL HAVE PROBLEMS DRIVING A BIG LOUDSPEAKER WITH A NOMINAL IMPEDANCE DIPPING BELOW 4 OHMS - GETS REAL HOT AND WILL SHUT DOWN WHEN PUSHED HARD.

    PAIR OF B&W 801C's. THREE-WAY SPEAKER. ONE 15" WOOFER, 6" MIDRANGE, AND 1" ALUMINUM DOME TWEETER. THE NEW NAUTILUS DIAMOND SERIES TWEETER (IN A 801D, FOR EXAMPLE) IS SMOOTHER THAN THE ALUMINUM TWEETER AND LESS BRIGHT, BUT SUBSTANTIALLY MORE EXPENSIVE.

    BRYSTON SP-1 5.1 PROCESSOR, WITH AN ANOLOG BYPASS SWITCH, WHICH ALLOWS THE USER TO BYPASS ALL DIGITAL CIRCUITRY. THE BYPASS MODE EQUALS THE BRYSTON ANALOG BP-25 PREAMP.

    ARCAM CD23T CD PLAYER (WITH HDCD AND dCS RING DAC). DISCONTINUED.

    CHEAP SONY FIVE DISC CD/SACD/DVD PLAYER. USE FOR DVD AND SACD. EXCELLENT, LOW PRICED SACD PLAYER.

    TRANSPARENT INTERCONNECTS FROM CD TO PREAMP. ANALYSIS PLUS XLR I/C's BETWEEN PREAMP AND AMP.

    SHUNYATA HYRDRA 2 AND HYDRA 6 POWER CONDITIONERS, WITH SHUNYATA COPPERHEAD A/C POWERCORDS CONNECTING DEDICATED 20 AMP CIRCUIT TO HYDRA'S. HYDRA 2 USED FOR CD PLAYER, B/C DIGITAL SOURCES ARE NOISY.

    TWO INFINITY INTERMEZZO SUBWOOFERS. 12" CONES W/850 BASH AMPS. SEALED ENCLOSURE. DISCONTINUED

    BRYSTON 4B ST 250 WPC POWER AMP FOR REAR DEFINTIVE TECHNOLOGY, BP 30'S, INACTIVE SPEAKERS.

    INFINITY INTERMEZZO POWERED CENTER CHANNEL, DRIVEN BY AN OUTLAW, M-200 MONOBLOCK AMP (200 WATTS @ 8 OHMS) AND ONLY $300. SPEAKER HAS BUILT-IN 250 WATT BASH AMP FOR WOOFERS. INTERMEZZO'S ARE DISCONTINUED.

    BRYSTON 9 AWG SPEAKER CABLES FOR 801's. BI-WIRED.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular Florian's Avatar
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    Who the hell cares if you own a stupid, properbly the most overprized crap speaker in history?

    Anyways on the Krell vs. MF, i will gladly point out that the Krell is not the BETTER option. A poster above me said that they are better, and that is not the case. Krell went downhill ever since the last KSA250 series and that incl. build quality and especially sound quality. The new ones dont even drive 1ohm loads anymore. They are not class A either, but switch to A/B after 40 watts or so depending on model. Still good, but definetly not like they were and dont push away those MF.

    -Flo
    Lots of music but not enough time for it all

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