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  1. #1
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Krell S300i caught my eye.

    Never thought I could own a Krell but now the S300i is only $2500. This amp will fit into my budget and what I have read sounds good. I have the impression that Krell does not appeal to all tastes. I would be interested in the opinions of those who have heard or owned Krell electronics. This would be a nice step into the high end both with performance and brand appeal. Thanks in advance.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
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  2. #2
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Would that replace the 9555, John?
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  3. #3
    RGA
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    To be blunt John you answered your own question without realizing you asked a question.

    "Krell does not appeal to all tastes" There is your answer and the question now needed is "Am I going to like the Krell sound" - and the answer to that is to listen.

    The rest is an opinion since you also asked but frankly you'll just get personal preference tastes. I am not a fan of Krell - I think you pay far more than is necessary to get that "sound" which for example could be attained from Bryston - but with a vastly better warranty and more power. I don't care for the Bryston sound either but both are in the ballpark sonically. Again in my opinion.

    The mistake is to fall trap to name brand appeal and prestige of said name brand. And be careful because most people I have met in person and on forums who own Krell have not really had a lot of wide spread experience with a lot of different "kinds of" systems. Comparing a Krell to a Nad or Arcam is one thing comparing them to the best stuff at the price range is something else.

    Especially for a guy like you into vinyl - I mean you've stuck to vinyl - why not embark onto tubes - for $2500 you should be able to bash Krell (any Krell) upside the head!!

  4. #4
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    To be blunt John you answered your own question without realizing you asked a question.

    "Krell does not appeal to all tastes" There is your answer and the question now needed is "Am I going to like the Krell sound" - and the answer to that is to listen.

    The rest is an opinion since you also asked but frankly you'll just get personal preference tastes. I am not a fan of Krell - I think you pay far more than is necessary to get that "sound" which for example could be attained from Bryston - but with a vastly better warranty and more power. I don't care for the Bryston sound either but both are in the ballpark sonically. Again in my opinion.

    The mistake is to fall trap to name brand appeal and prestige of said name brand. And be careful because most people I have met in person and on forums who own Krell have not really had a lot of wide spread experience with a lot of different "kinds of" systems. Comparing a Krell to a Nad or Arcam is one thing comparing them to the best stuff at the price range is something else.

    Especially for a guy like you into vinyl - I mean you've stuck to vinyl - why not embark onto tubes - for $2500 you should be able to bash Krell (any Krell) upside the head!!


    Gee and I thought I had posted enough times that I am not interested in tubes. Maybe your post will help someone.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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    Monitor Audio RS6
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  5. #5
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    John, the 400xi has been at $2,500.00 for a long time. I haven't heard the s300i since the guys quit carrying the line, or at least not supporting it.

    I differ with RGA in some of what he said, in what Krell does best not many can match. What they do best is build high quality strong high current amps with an iron grip control over the music. You would not believe how powerful there "150 watts" is. The bass response is strong with good definition. The highs are extended with out being offensive. Krell will be on the analytical side. I personally feel Krell has better synergy with Krell. Meaning at some point you should plan on getting a Krell digital playback for best results. What I mean by "control" is their amps are so controlling you can put on a Rap disc and the bass has no rumble, it's clean, deep and clean. Another thing that can be startling is Krell's transient response, this gives drums a real snap and punch like live drums have. Krell is also capable of producing a nice sound stage. I think the control is what people sometimes have a problem with, they aren't used to hearing bass that clean, and to be fair, bass guitar isn't always that clean live, whether a concert or in the garage. Another thing I liked about Krell is what I call "weight" it gives to instruments. Some systems you can hear a sax and it may sound thin or like the sax is a toy or something, through Krell it has the sound to give you the feel or body of a real sax. With that being said, the entry level Krell does lack some micro and macro dynamics. I like to also call those texture or presence cues. This is where the trade off was with Krell vs CJ was but that's another day.

    Bobsticks has heard my 500i with my Dyns maybe he'll chime in later.

    I don't know how you feel about used but the 400iL is probably one of the better integrated amps since the 500i. The iL ran about $3.5k and was matched with the 280cd. I can't recall if you are a SACD man. Don't let the sleek look fool you, as all the Krell, the IL is a beast.

    I've heard Krell has jumped on the band wagon and having the KAV stuff built in China. So it would be interesting to see if then the s300i provides more for the money or just more profit for Krell.

  6. #6
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    Gee and I thought I had posted enough times that I am not interested in tubes. Maybe your post will help someone.
    Sorry but I don't remember what every poster is interested in or wishes to have or not have.

    Sounds like you want the Krell based on no auditions and what you're looking for is support in the pre-selection. Krell is a technically well made product - well built and i could agree with what Mr. P has to say about the sonic characteristics. For me they're about as as far removed from an emotionally satisfying real music reproduction as it gets.

    I would look at the Sugden A21a or something from Nelson Pass if SS is an absolute must. I'd also sooner go to digital from Meridian than Krell.

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    [QUOTE=Mr Peabody

    I differ with RGA in some of what he said, in what Krell does best not many can match. What they do best is build high quality strong high current amps with an iron grip control over the music. You would not believe how powerful there "150 watts" is. The bass response is strong with good definition. The highs are extended with out being offensive. Krell will be on the analytical side. I personally feel Krell has better synergy with Krell. Meaning at some point you should plan on getting a Krell digital playback for best results. What I mean by "control" is their amps are so controlling you can put on a Rap disc and the bass has no rumble, it's clean, deep and clean. Another thing that can be startling is Krell's transient response, this gives drums a real snap and punch like live drums have. Krell is also capable of producing a nice sound stage. I think the control is what people sometimes have a problem with, they aren't used to hearing bass that clean, and to be fair, bass guitar isn't always that clean live, whether a concert or in the garage. Another thing I liked about Krell is what I call "weight" it gives to instruments. Some systems you can hear a sax and it may sound thin or like the sax is a toy or something, through Krell it has the sound to give you the feel or body of a real sax. With that being said, the entry level Krell does lack some micro and macro dynamics. I like to also call those texture or presence cues. This is where the trade off was with Krell vs CJ was but that's another day.

    [/QUOTE]




    Thank you Mr. P for your insights. Since I live in an area without any high end audio stores I usually have to plan a day of travel to hear a product. Descriptions such as the good ones you provided tells me I should give the Krell a listen.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
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    Monitor Audio RS6
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    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  8. #8
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Krell, humm..

    JM, I've never had a serious audition of Krell products, but I'll admit I've been put off by their reputation for "analytic" sound.

    Some other S/S integrated amp options:
    • Simaudio Moon i3.3, $3300
    • Bryston B100 SST, $3000+
    • Musical Fidelity A5.5, $3000
    • Wryred 4 Sound STI-500 or STI-1000, (Class D), $2000 / $2500
    • PS Audio Trio C100 (Class D), $1600
    • Bel Canto e.One S300i (Class D), $1600
    • Simaudio Moon i5 (discontinued), $1200 @ Music Dircect
    • Musical Fidelity A1 (36 wpc Class A), $2000 => $1000 @ Audio Advisor
    • Cambridge Azur 840A, $1500 => $900 @ Audio Advisor
    • YBA YA-201, ('B' stock), $850 @ Music Direct
    If my equipment were to die some horrible death today, and if I decided not to buy used, I'd give first consideration to the Cambridge 840A or the YBA based on "bang for buck".

  9. #9
    nightflier
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    Feanor,

    With all due respect, what you've listed is quite varied in sound and performance. That MF A1 is not really comparable to a $2500 Krell amp, is it? I haven't heard it, but I have to believe that the A1 is in a much lower league (and also built in China, I'm guessing). Also, the class-D amps will have a very different sound from the Bryston/Krell sound, and to a lesser extent, the CA sound.

    Just some thoughts, since JM is looking to move up from a class-D Onkyo putting out 120w. I don't know if the Mobile Fidelity speakers are hard to drive, but that should also be taken into account.

    JM, if you want to try out the Krell sound at a lower price point, here's something that should fit the bill:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT

  10. #10
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Feanor,

    With all due respect, what you've listed is quite varied in sound and performance. That MF A1 is not really comparable to a $2500 Krell amp, is it? I haven't heard it, but I have to believe that the A1 is in a much lower league (and also built in China, I'm guessing).
    Why would it be in "a much lower league"? He's comparing a $2K Integrated to a $2.5K Integrated... I would expect a very different presentation as one is a 36 Watt Class A Integrated while the other is a 150 Watt Class A/B, but they should be in the same league...

  11. #11
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by Feanor
    JM, I've never had a serious audition of Krell products, but I'll admit I've been put off by their reputation for "analytic" sound.

    Some other S/S integrated amp options:
    • Simaudio Moon i3.3, $3300
    • Bryston B100 SST, $3000+
    • Musical Fidelity A5.5, $3000
    • Wryred 4 Sound STI-500 or STI-1000, (Class D), $2000 / $2500
    • PS Audio Trio C100 (Class D), $1600
    • Bel Canto e.One S300i (Class D), $1600
    • Simaudio Moon i5 (discontinued), $1200 @ Music Dircect
    • Musical Fidelity A1 (36 wpc Class A), $2000 => $1000 @ Audio Advisor
    • Cambridge Azur 840A, $1500 => $900 @ Audio Advisor
    • YBA YA-201, ('B' stock), $850 @ Music Direct
    If my equipment were to die some horrible death today, and if I decided not to buy used, I'd give first consideration to the Cambridge 840A or the YBA based on "bang for buck".
    Interesting recommendations: I would also add the Creek Destiny $2.5K (Stereophile Class A + other great reviews in the TAS, etc..)..

    Oh and the Bel Canto S300i is actually $2K new.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    John, the 400xi has been at $2,500.00 for a long time. I haven't heard the s300i since the guys quit carrying the line, or at least not supporting it.

    I differ with RGA in some of what he said, in what Krell does best not many can match. What they do best is build high quality strong high current amps with an iron grip control over the music. You would not believe how powerful there "150 watts" is. The bass response is strong with good definition. The highs are extended with out being offensive. Krell will be on the analytical side. I personally feel Krell has better synergy with Krell. Meaning at some point you should plan on getting a Krell digital playback for best results. What I mean by "control" is their amps are so controlling you can put on a Rap disc and the bass has no rumble, it's clean, deep and clean. Another thing that can be startling is Krell's transient response, this gives drums a real snap and punch like live drums have. Krell is also capable of producing a nice sound stage. I think the control is what people sometimes have a problem with, they aren't used to hearing bass that clean, and to be fair, bass guitar isn't always that clean live, whether a concert or in the garage. Another thing I liked about Krell is what I call "weight" it gives to instruments. Some systems you can hear a sax and it may sound thin or like the sax is a toy or something, through Krell it has the sound to give you the feel or body of a real sax. With that being said, the entry level Krell does lack some micro and macro dynamics. I like to also call those texture or presence cues. This is where the trade off was with Krell vs CJ was but that's another day.

    Bobsticks has heard my 500i with my Dyns maybe he'll chime in later.

    I don't know how you feel about used but the 400iL is probably one of the better integrated amps since the 500i. The iL ran about $3.5k and was matched with the 280cd. I can't recall if you are a SACD man. Don't let the sleek look fool you, as all the Krell, the IL is a beast.

    I've heard Krell has jumped on the band wagon and having the KAV stuff built in China. So it would be interesting to see if then the s300i provides more for the money or just more profit for Krell.
    I know that this point has been argued for years in both directions but In my opinion Damping factor is an important measurement of a given amplifiers ability to control the drivers motion in direct comparison to the amplifiers input signal. It sounds like the Krell amplifiers have a better damping factor than other designs and that will give you the results that you are talking about when it comes to the smooth tight clean bass that these amps present event when rap music or other bass heavey music is played. I think some people surprised at the tight control that these amps have over the drivers motion, Especially woofers which being of a bigger size usually are the hardest to tame. To me this is a good thing and can yield overall better speaker control and better sound especially in the bass department. Its just my 2 cents and I know there are people out there that will debate this point but thats why there is so many different components out their and so much diversity when it comes to audiophiles ideas of great sound.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
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    Samsung 46" LED TV
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    PS Audio Quintet power center



  13. #13
    nightflier
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    Ajani,

    All things being equal, it's still 36w, which puts it at the bottom of the list, IMO. We can wax on about the build-quality, parts, and brand recognition, it's still hugely underpowered compared to the other amps on the list, and certainly compared to a 150w Krell. It just won't have the muscle to drive a heavy load or to control the speakers with the same chutzpa. You can't make butter with a toothpick... well you can try, but why not just get the right tool for the job?

    More specifically, I'm not sure if the A1 would be a considerable upgrade to the Onkyo. Yes, it might sound slightly better at low volume playing small ensemble pieces, but at some point JM is going to want to turn it up or play some Mahler. Frankly, I'm kind of puzzled about why MF would release such a product: it's plain looking, it's underpowered, and it costs too much compared to the competition. I really don't think AA is selling a lot of these at the msrp - the one they have on sale now is a returned unit.

    I may be wrong, but let's be honest, it's a hard $2K to justify.

  14. #14
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    There's not an amp on that list that would come close except maybe the Bryston or Sim. It's obvious that the anti-Krell sentiment has spread like a bad rumour without foundation. If you liked Krell or not, any one who experienced it would certainly not seriously put the Cambridge 840 as competition. No Class D amp I've ever seen will drive a difficult speaker load like a Krell. I mean you guys have no idea the power these things can unmass. It's not very thoughtful to discourage some one from at least trying a new thing when reservations are based on here say. There's a reason Florian uses Krell and notice he even has them on the tweets. Krell did not get where they are by putting out something less than spectacular. Even if their sound isn't your cup of tea I bet I could hook mine up to my Dyn's and you'd be wowed. I have a Reference label CD called something like Music for Organ, Brass & Wind, there's a track on there that is so incredible you'd have to be amazed. It delivers a bone jarring crescendo like you've never heard, unless maybe live.

    The older 300i is the least of all the Krell integrated amps. It does seemingly have unlimited power and many of the Krell traits but not all the detail and overall sound quality of let's say the iL or 500i. I've really never compared the 300i to the 400xi as they were so many years apart I've never had them together. It is where I got my start with Krell though. It also has an older Krell sound with a more black back ground.

  15. #15
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Just some thoughts, since JM is looking to move up from a class-D Onkyo putting out 120w. I don't know if the Mobile Fidelity speakers are hard to drive, but that should also be taken into account.


    Yes for a small two way they require a little more than the Onkyo can give. The Onkyo will be paired with the Ascend CBM 170's and the Marantz CD 5001 for a nice bedroom system.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  16. #16
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    JM, follow the link in my signature to the T+A website, what do you think of the "Power Plant"? This sells around $3k. I don't feel T+A can match the Krell power, I know they use some type of digital switching power supplies in amps but not sure if on the Power Plant. In general from what I've listened to the T+A has an excellent sound quality. They are able to deliver tons of detail. It's hard to put their sound into words because they do almost everything so well. Their bass response is more articulate than Krell actually, maybe not as powerful. I really like what they can do. I prefer the Krell highs though.

    Does any one around you carry Krell? If not, I'd be willing to let you hear mine and we'd borrow a Power Plant and have some fun listening and comparing. If you could bare the pain of tubes I'd even turn on my Conrad Johnson I think I made a mistake by letting Bobsticks hear my Krell first. He really wanted to hear the CJ but after hearing the deep authoritative bass of the Krell, I think the CJ didn't make as big of an impression.

  17. #17
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    The krell s300i will be arriving Wednesday. Looking forward to burning it in before I write a review.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  18. #18
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    Oh, you don't mess around do you Does your 8001 have XLR outs?

  19. #19
    Super Moderator Site Moderator JohnMichael's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr Peabody
    JM, follow the link in my signature to the T+A website, what do you think of the "Power Plant"? This sells around $3k. I don't feel T+A can match the Krell power, I know they use some type of digital switching power supplies in amps but not sure if on the Power Plant. In general from what I've listened to the T+A has an excellent sound quality. They are able to deliver tons of detail. It's hard to put their sound into words because they do almost everything so well. Their bass response is more articulate than Krell actually, maybe not as powerful. I really like what they can do. I prefer the Krell highs though.

    Does any one around you carry Krell? If not, I'd be willing to let you hear mine and we'd borrow a Power Plant and have some fun listening and comparing. If you could bare the pain of tubes I'd even turn on my Conrad Johnson I think I made a mistake by letting Bobsticks hear my Krell first. He really wanted to hear the CJ but after hearing the deep authoritative bass of the Krell, I think the CJ didn't make as big of an impression.



    Mr. P I would enjoy hearing your system. I know bobsticks enjoyed his visit. I should clarify my stance on tubes. I have listened to several tube based systems that I have enjoyed. I am too neurotic for tubes. I would be wondering if it still sounded as good as yesterday. I would probably spend too much time biasing the tubes. I guess what I am saying is there is nothing wrong with tubes the problem is with me.
    JohnMichael
    Vinyl Rega Planar 2, Incognito rewire, Deepgroove subplatter, ceramic bearing, Michell Technoweight, Rega 24V motor, TTPSU, FunkFirm Achroplat platter, Michael Lim top and bottom braces, 2 Rega feet and one RDC cones. Grado Sonata, Moon 110 LP phono.
    Digital
    Sony SCD-XA5400ES SACD/cd SID mat, Marantz SA 8001
    Int. Amp Krell S-300i
    Speaker
    Monitor Audio RS6
    Cables
    AQ SPKR and AQ XLR and IC

  20. #20
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Ajani,

    All things being equal, it's still 36w, which puts it at the bottom of the list, IMO. We can wax on about the build-quality, parts, and brand recognition, it's still hugely underpowered compared to the other amps on the list, and certainly compared to a 150w Krell. It just won't have the muscle to drive a heavy load or to control the speakers with the same chutzpa. You can't make butter with a toothpick... well you can try, but why not just get the right tool for the job?
    If you're arguing raw power then yep, the A1 is not in league with the Krell.

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    More specifically, I'm not sure if the A1 would be a considerable upgrade to the Onkyo. Yes, it might sound slightly better at low volume playing small ensemble pieces, but at some point JM is going to want to turn it up or play some Mahler.
    I've heard and liked both high powered and low powered amps at the same price level. I replaced a NAD C352 (80 watts) with a 200 watt Rotel Amp/Pre combo some years ago and noted a significant improvement. For the same price as the Rotel, I also really liked a 50 watt Musical Fidelity X Series amp (which was also a significant step up from the NAD - just in a different way)...

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    Frankly, I'm kind of puzzled about why MF would release such a product: it's plain looking, it's underpowered, and it costs too much compared to the competition. I really don't think AA is selling a lot of these at the msrp - the one they have on sale now is a returned unit.
    I think the A1 is being discontinued as I see it selling at half price on a few sites (which is what MF normally does when they drop a product).

    In addition to your criticisms I'd add the reason I won't buy one: It gets way too hot .... you're supposed to be able to use it as a room heater - which is a major PITA considering I'd have to use it in a small room (based on its low power output) and I live in Jamaica, so the last thing I need is more heat....

    Quote Originally Posted by nightflier
    I may be wrong, but let's be honest, it's a hard $2K to justify.
    It's pretty hard to justify any of the prices in high end, so I don't put too much thought into that aspect anymore... I just look in my wallet and figure out what I can afford...

  21. #21
    Ajani
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    The krell s300i will be arriving Wednesday. Looking forward to burning it in before I write a review.
    Looking forward to your review!

  22. #22
    RGA
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    Higher damping factor does not drive woofers better - a better power supply does regardless of watts. Higher damping factors also generally equate to higher negative feedback - higher negative feedback generally = worse sound!!

    UHF magazine wrote about this aspect and argue that it's best avoid amplifiers with a damping factor over 40! Since the book will cost you money - skip it for now and read the following

    http://www.stereophile.com/reference/70/index.html

    I had a Sugden A48b - a 60ish watt non high current amp that controlled and went deeper in the bass with a Paradigm Studio 100V2 than did a much pricier 150 watt power channel Musical Fidelity which sounded lean and lightweight in the bass. If that's better control you can keep it.

  23. #23
    Do What? jrhymeammo's Avatar
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    Congrats John.
    Be sure to post some pics with your review.
    I really need to pay a visit to your place. I'll be sure to bring some tubes, and try to stuff them in your gear somehow.

    JRA

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnMichael
    Mr. P I would enjoy hearing your system. I know bobsticks enjoyed his visit. I should clarify my stance on tubes. I have listened to several tube based systems that I have enjoyed. I am too neurotic for tubes. I would be wondering if it still sounded as good as yesterday. I would probably spend too much time biasing the tubes. I guess what I am saying is there is nothing wrong with tubes the problem is with me.
    I was just giving you some grief. I have to admit it is a pain that it takes a good half hour after turn on for the system to start sounding as it should. I usually listen to it any way for that first half hour because I know the tubes have a limited life and I keep thinking about all those half hours gone to waste if I didn't. I think that may be nourotic I'm not one that likes to tinker so I would have reasons to go back to solid state except the main reason to stay is it sounds so good.

    RGA, it would be interesting to hear your definition of "good bass". There's "thin", then, there's "control". I know you didn't mention Krell, I'm just using it as an example, that's the epitomy of control. You get a bass line where everything in that region is distinct yet delivered with authority, you get bass that goes extremely deep without a hint of rumble or looseness, that's my definition of control.

  25. #25
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RGA
    Higher damping factor does not drive woofers better - a better power supply does regardless of watts. Higher damping factors also generally equate to higher negative feedback - higher negative feedback generally = worse sound!!

    UHF magazine wrote about this aspect and argue that it's best avoid amplifiers with a damping factor over 40! Since the book will cost you money - skip it for now and read the following

    http://www.stereophile.com/reference/70/index.html

    ...
    Thanks for the reference, RGA, its well worth a read.

    But to say the high damping factor is bad is a generalization based on the fact that it might be produced using large amounts of negative feedback. And that the negative feedback might be causing relatively large amounts of high-order harmonic distortion that might, in turn, be the cause of brightness or high audio frequency grain -- which furthermore, might or might not be perceptable or objectionable to the listener.

    There are well-respected designs today that use quite large amounts of negative feedback. As I understand, these include Halcro and Boulder for example. To my knowledge makers such as Bryston and, yes, Krell don't entirely eshew the use of negative feedback either. In these designs work (for many people) because their overall distortion is very low and perhaps because their higher-order harmonic distortion is not particularly high relative to their low-order distortion.

    I suspect a case might be made that the success of low feedback designs, including tube designs in particular, is that they produce relatively large amounts of low -order, especially 2nd order, harmonic distortion. 2nd order distortion is proven to be pleasant sounding to most people and probably masks higher order distortion, (hence the success of hybrid systems and components).

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