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Japanese Audio???
Hello everyone,
I am glad of having all you here because this is the best guide to be HI-FI. I always see many threads about european and american brands. What happen with the Japaneses?? They don't know how to make hi-end components. What about Pioneer Elite, Marantz, Denon, Luxman, Sony ES, Onkyo Integra, Yamaha, ...They even don't know how to make a hi-end cd player...I mean top of the line models.. The japanese sound isn't good????? For this reason, I left a Denon power amp POA 2200 in the goodwill . It was $20.00
Thanks.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvjorge
Hello everyone,
I am glad of having all you here because this is the best guide to be HI-FI. I always see many threads about european and american brands. What happen with the Japaneses?? They don't know how to make hi-end components. What about Pioneer Elite, Marantz, Denon, Luxman, Sony ES, Onkyo Integra, Yamaha, ...They even don't know how to make a hi-end cd player...I mean top of the line models.. The japanese sound isn't good????? For this reason, I left a Denon power amp POA 2200 in the goodwill . It was $20.00
Thanks.
The brands you mention all have or have had excellent high end components along with affordable ones. I own the Marantz SA 8001 cd/sacd player which I find to be incredible for the price. I also own a lower cost Marnatz CD5001 which was a great bargain along with a Sony cd recorder. I was considering a Luxman integrated amp for all the incredible reviews I had read. There are many Japanese brands that are worthy of respect. The Esoteric cd players and speakers are examples of high end products. I heard a Sony ES speaker at one time that was incredible and out of my price range. Many a great phono cartridge has come from Japan.
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I own an Integrated Amplifier and a Receiver from what I believe is the best japanese sound ever. It is sad they went out...I respect this company and see how many people still do today. It was compared to Mc Intosch, and some say better than it. SANSUI.. the AU-X1 and TU -X1 are dream components. Probably between the 10 best ever made in its class.
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Out of all the stuff you mentioned I am the most impressed with Sansui. After owning an AU-9500 that blew me away with it's performance. Not only did it sound great it was built. The knobs and switches were tight and firm like a piece of test equipment. And, I had that the past couple years, it was built in the early 70's and still tight and right.
I sure wouldn't have left a Denon amp for $20.00. Denon had a set of monoblocks that were like $20k. I haven't heard them but in that ultra price will they compete with the likes of Krell?
Some decent gear came out of Japan but not to the quality and extent of brands like Krell, ARC, Conrad Johnson, Linn, Naim, and the like. Well.... as JM mentioned there is Esoteric so I can't make a complete blanket statement. And, there is the Marantz Reference but I'm not sure technically were that's from.
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dvjorge, you are not the first guy I hear that says the Japanese electronics are not good. Maybe the new stuff they make those days, some of them are really not good, however the stuff before 1990 is pretty good! I would never give away a Denon POA 2200, that is a pretty sick amplifier.
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Mr P. Yes, this is the second time I agree with you. The first one was about the Rotel's sound. I love Sansui and I would like to own an AU-X1 or TU-X1, the AU-919 is another beast. I like to read discussions in Audiokarma.org about Sansui vs Mc Intosch. There are some people who own both and give all credits to Sansui. Sansui made more than one very hi-end gear. The old sansui sound is better than the rest of the japanese brands. Amplifiers, tuners, and turntables were their best. You see how high Sansui staff go in ebay...I believe Sansui's top of the line receiver sold for $8000.00 some time ago.
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$8k!? I should have kept my amp and put it on there :)
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This Japanese amp company made amplifiers that aided some of the best sound at CES. The owner was quite a nice fellow - not too much English but he was quite a gracious fellow and more importantly his amps look beautiful are sanely priced and sound wonderful.
http://www.vacuumtube.com/trijapan.htm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RGA
This Japanese amp company made amplifiers that aided some of the best sound at CES. The owner was quite a nice fellow - not too much English but he was quite a gracious fellow and more importantly his amps look beautiful are sanely priced and sound wonderful.
http://www.vacuumtube.com/trijapan.htm
Never heard of them but they do look good. And they look like they are built well. I think a lot of people have got used to hearing people talk about japanese products sounding bright and sterile with know life to it but I believe there are some stuff out there that does brake that stereotype but it does not help with companies like Yamaha going mainstream and selling out their quality to sell at Best buy. I used to like Yamaha back in the 90's when I sold them and they were a well built unit for the price but in the last few years they have went downhill in a big way and I might use my Yamaha for home theater but As soom as my bikes custom paint gets done and I pay for it the next thing I am going to do is start upgrading the front end of my system with a preamp and Dac. Possibly a tube preamp not sure yet I have seen some Audio Research units of the gon that are catching my eye and I have heard that their tube preamps work well with Adcom amps.
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I would be more than happy to own any of this Marantz Reference Series gear as a high end audiophile system- http://us.marantz.com/Products/616.asp
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
That is something that you won't see companies from other countries do very often. Marrantz has products from the entry level all the way to the high end and so does Denon. Most of your British, German,or American companies sell products in the entry level or the high end not both. I personally think this turns some of the high end guys off because they want to run products that are made by companies that when people see them they know that they are not garden variety pieces of equipment and that gives them a much more exotic appeal. There is a lot of people out there that aren't audiophiles that have heard of Denon or Marrantz but there aren't very many non audiophiles that has heard of Boulder,Pass,Krell or many others. I am not saying one is better than the other but I will say that the wealthier high end guy treats his high end audio like he does his cars. He would rather drive a Ferrari that only a few people have in the world that is totally exotic and rare than to drive a car from honda that is just as fast and performs as well because the Ferrari has more exotic appeal because most general people have not seen one and only the big time car guys know about them. Its the same thing with high end audio. Most guys of wealth would rather have a product that nobody has heard about unless you are a hard core high end audiophile than a product just as good with a known label on it because its not as mysterious and does not inspire as much attention to itself.
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2 Attachment(s)
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Originally Posted by harley .guy07
... Marrantz has products from the entry level all the way to the high end and so does Denon. Most of your British, German,or American companies sell products in the entry level or the high end not both. I personally think this turns some of the high end guys off because they want to run products that are made by companies that when people see them they know that they are not garden variety pieces of equipment and that gives them a much more exotic appeal...
Well...I'm sure there is some "bragging rights" or "exclusivity" factor associated with it. But the likes of Krell, Levinson, McIntosh do sound really good.
Did someone say that the Japanese cannot make high end? I don't know about that one:
I know that looks aren't everything, but I bet it sounds "okay".
On the Pre-Amp, the power section has been separated to reduce any potential noise factors.
Attachment 6609
Attachment 6610
(Images were taken from someone's old auction - hope I'm not violating anything here)
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I think that the Marantz reference series holds its own with equipment in the the same price bracket and higher. Marantz has a unique sound to their equipment leaning towards the warmer or more analog sound. Their high end Cd/SACD players can compete with the best of them. The reference series also has that high end look. I would love to own an all reference series system.
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Anybody who denigrates Japanese products (audio) outright either is ignorant or a fool. The Japanese are a very educated and informed people and much of the gear they have produced in quite, quite good. While consumer-oriented products seem to get the most exposure, even a cursory glance through high-end journals is enough to show you that their forays into high end is mighty impressive.
Many folks I met and knew there know music and many ardent audiophiles spend huge amounts of time in salons in Tokyo and other cities, auditioning gear. I think many of us can take a page out of their book, in just listening to music and making decisions about what we hear versus all the clicks, whistles and other BS.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harley .guy07
I think a lot of people have got used to hearing people talk about japanese products sounding bright and sterile with know life to it but I believe there are some stuff out there that does brake that stereotype but it does not help with companies like Yamaha going mainstream and selling out their quality to sell at Best buy. I used to like Yamaha back in the 90's when I sold them and they were a well built unit for the price but in the last few years they have went downhill in a big way
Something to keep in mind about companies like Yamaha and Denon is that despite their bad rep in North America (mainly because of selling HT Receivers at Best Buy), they have some high quality, award winning, 2 channel gear that is only availaible in Europe and Japan...
I think part of the problem (as mentioned in another post) is snob appeal... Why pay $2.5K for a Marantz Integrated Amp (considering that your neighbour, who knows squat about audio, has a Marantz Receiver) when you could get a Krell Integrated for the same money???
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For what it's worth - Kondo-san was Japanese and started Audio Note - which has become arguably the best tube amp manufacturer in the audio business - or at the very least there is no one better.
Technical Brain is Japanese and having heard them - I can't think of a better SS amplifier that I think is any better - perhaps as good but...
So both in SS and tube - they're as good as it gets. In the budget arena Tri was probably as good as it gets - at least would hold their own at anything in the price class.
And Sony put out $25,000 loudspeakers at CES - and while not everyone agreed - I think that because it's "Sony" they didn't get the credit they deserved. They were tremendous loudspeakers on a lot of fronts and Ray Kimber stated that he has not heard a better loudspeaker by anyone for $25,000. I would not go that far but it was a tremendous demonstration and I could see a lot of people spending their $25k on those loudspeakers (which are not on the market yet apperently).
While not Japanese - South Korea has a HUGE passion for audio gear - and the Silbatone company run by billionaires auto and oil guys run it for the fun of it and made a tremendous single driver horn speaker with a Manger driver - and a silver wired transformer 300b (remind you of anyone) and it was one of the very best systems I've heard - tough really to find fault - at least with the music played - next time I go I have some music that will put stuff to an insane test.
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RGA, thats a pretty bold statement about AN being the best tube amp manufacturer. I must admit that I have never heard a AN piece of equipment but what do you have to back that up, just for my own curiosity. I'm not arguing or disputing the fact but I would like some info relating to your claim.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
RGA, thats a pretty bold statement about AN being the best tube amp manufacturer. I must admit that I have never heard a AN piece of equipment but what do you have to back that up, just for my own curiosity. I'm not arguing or disputing the fact but I would like some info relating to your claim.
He likes AN better than all other brands... What more backup does he need?
:shocked:
As I've said before (more eloquently though) the more outrageous claims you make, the less people regard your opinion... Especially considering how subjective this hobby is...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blackraven
I'm not arguing or disputing the fact but I would like some info relating to your claim.
Wow! What a thread. We found out that "Japaneses don't know how to make hi-end components", and now you're asking for some info backing RGA's subjective opinion?
Are you guys for real?
P.S. And yes, Audio Note sounds terrific.
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Thats why I will never say one piece of equipment is the best because its all subjective with little or no objectivity. One mans garbage is another mans treasure!
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So true, it's subjective. It would be interesting to hear if Sony's $25k speaker even came close to the Dynaudio Sapphire at $16k.
Marantz might get some respect when their $2500.00 integrated performs like a Krell. I didn't say sounds like, I said performs like. If you don't know the difference then you shouldn't argue the point.
I heard it said by some that Conrad Johnson's Art series was some of the best in the world.
Japanese gear will get respect when they provide this type of performance along with the price tag they stick on it.
Those of you who are defending the Japanese, let's see your Japanese gear list. Let's say other than what you bought from mass market/department stores.
I guess I could start, I actually have a Marantz A/V preamp and I have to admit it's good for $2500.00. I don't use a lot of the features but it doesn't have much comp at the price.
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If I could afford it I would definitely own the Marantz Reference SA-7S1 SACDP for $7K as well as a pair of the $8K MA 9S2 monoblocks!
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I would be open minded to the Marantz but if I won the lottery the CJ tube monoblocks would be on my list. CJ has a hybrid power amp now, the ET250, that would also be interesting to hear. I'm not into SACD, my front end of choice so far would be the T+A $8k player with tube output. Before that kind of lay out of cash, even being rich, I'd certainly do a lot of listening.
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I agree with you Mr. P, If I had the money Marantz may not be the first on my list but I would certainly give them a listen and and strongly consider that SACD player which is no slouch. I would go the high end tube route and look at CJ, Mac and several others. ( I would have to consider McCintosh just on looks alone. Several Mc ampsand preamps stacked together are a beautiful sight.
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