Integrated Amp, How many Watts do I need?

[Mark4583]

I dont know a whole lot about Audio when it comes to the in's and out's but I am thinking of going with a Integrated Amp, if this is what I need, in place of a Reciver, being I rarely listen to the Radio and I have a old Kenwwod Tunner in the closet if I need.
If my Main speakers where 8 Ohm 250 watt max , how many Watts per chanel should be my min in order to achive enough volume that not run me out of my room but a decent level.
I may be looking at it the wrong way, I see amps that rate 30 wpc and that dosnt seem to be enough to get the volume up some, but I have never used a integrated amp before, always a A/V reciver which at the moment is a Sony STR-DE715 I think is a 100 wpc and it doesnt realy crank the 150 watt mains that I have now, ( old pair of low lv Teac).
What I want to do is a CD, Amp and a set of mains and Sub and secound set of book shelfs later, for music only.
looking to spend about $1000. for both amp and cd, any sugestions on what to look at or should I go another way?
Speakers I am looking at are the Paradgms Studio 60's, which I like alot, and the Axiom Mti 60's, which I am going to go listen to next week.
Thanks

[anamorphic96]

What is the sensitivity of the speakers. It should be listed in the specs near the power ratings and ohm rating. All Paradigm speakers are pretty efficient. I use the Studio 40's and there rated at 91db sensitivity into 8 ohms. When sensitivity is measured, 1 watt of power is applied to the speaker and measured at 1 meters distance from the speaker. So the Studio 40's will produce 91db with 1 watt at one meters distance. Now in order to get three more db of output from the speaker you will need to double the power. So in order to get 94db from my 40's I will need to apply 2 watts of power. Just keep doubling the power output for every 3 db of sound pressure. This is why sensitivity is more important than watts. This is why some people can get by with 25 or 30 watts. the most likely have very efficient speakers. Depending on how large your room is you would probably be fine with 50 to 80 watts depending on your tastes and how loud you play. The NAD C352 is rated at 80 watts per channel and makes my Sudio 40's sing. They can also get painfully loud with this amp. You could then add the NAD C521BEE CD player and the total would come to 900. Maybe less depnding on where you go.

One other thing I would like to add is you might want to look at the Studio 40's if you are going to get a sub. They may not have the bass depth that the 60's have but with a sub this is a non issue. I feel they image much better and the midrange is good bit clearer. Either way there both great speakers. Just food for thought.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Glenn

[Mark4583]

I was interested in NAD products but the nearest dealer is 80+ miles away and they dont sell over the net,they make it a little difficult to buy there products.

[Mark4583]

So If I go with say a 50 watt amp and I would like more power, what can I add, Power Amp?

[NickWH]

I was interested in NAD products but the nearest dealer is 80+ miles away and they dont sell over the net,they make it a little difficult to buy there products.

Oh no?

http://www.yawaonline.com/

So If I go with say a 50 watt amp and I would like more power, what can I add, Power Amp?

You could but I think the smarter thing to do would be to buy more than enough power now. In the long run it will cost less. Regardless, if you buy a really good 50 watt amp it will sound better than a low quality 100 watt amp, so don't go buy wattage ratings. I would look at Rotel and Arcam as well as NAD.

[anamorphic96]

Nick is right andthe link he gave is great source. Yawa is a good company to do business with. Yes you could get the 50 watt unit and use the pre outs to add a bigger amp but going with something larger to begin with will save you money and give better results.

Cheers,
Glenn

[Mark4583]

Thanks for the Link, I was wanting to go with Nad and I am going with the C352 and the C521BEE plus it stays with in my Budget and from what I have read they seem to be a very reliable unit and they look good.
Thanks

[RGA]

Just because a speaker is sensitive does not at all mean that it is efficient. A number of electrostat and other planars are not very sensitive but they are more than happy with 20 watts because their impedence doesn't go all over the map. This is what gives the amp's power supply the true test and why most receivers are totally inadequate for comeptant music reporduction. Some stats for example go under 1ohm at ~15khz-20khz which will not make a receiver happy or many integrateds very happy even with their claimed 100wats per channel babble.

The maximum rating on speakers are overblown as well becuase many of them refer to instantaneous watt handling - some speakers will provide a max dbl rating. Many speaker makers will provide a minimum watt rating as well. Don't really understand that one because you can always use less.

I read a review of an amplifier that I plan to buy in the Audio Note OTO SE - wher ethe reviewer liked the amp but complained about a bit of softening in tthe bass. This particular amp is 9watts per channel (and only 6 watts per channel in independant ratings - though they differ in the way they get to the numbers) regardless this is very little watts - the reviewer said at the end if he were not in the revieing business he'd buy the amp himself - but what is more surprising was that he was not using a tube friendly speaker but THIELS. These things are usually brutal with a huge impedence swing going more than 12 points ie the minimum to maximum impedence swing is larger than 12. So the minimum is ~2ohms to a maz of above 25.

All this ramble means that despite the mismatch the amp did well because it's of robust consruction and has superior power supplies - normal people would never run these kinds of speakers with such an amp.

In your case you want to find the minimum impedence of the Studio 60 is not mentioned though they recommend 15 -200 watts despite the fact that the speaker is rated to 150watts max. With the 88db anechoic sensitivity 3db room gain you'll be more than fine with say an amp around 50 watts - a good 50 watter is better than a not so goo 150watter. a 100 watt amp will be 3db louder than a 50 watt amp - 3db is barely audible - it takes 10 times the power to get a perceived doubling of the volume leve. So you would need a 500 watt amp to get the speakers to sound twice as loud as a 50 watt amp. But with the 60 you willneve get that result because the speaker can;t handle more than 150 watts.

Watts are the biggest BS thing doled out to people over the last 20 years. You can crack wall plaster with deafening volume from less than 10 watts and get pretty pathetic loudness from 450watt systems.

There is a reason why peole spend big big money on 3watt amplifiers and why arguably the best amplifier ever made clocking in at $89,000.00US and weighing more than 70lbs is a 27 watt tube amp - and why the biggest piles of junk have little stickers advertising their watts - that's all they have to advertise.

[Mark4583]

Thanks for the info
I was going to go with the Studio 60's and had a good price at $750 a pair, told the dealer that I couldnt purchase untill after the holidays and he said it would be ok and would sell at that price if he had any on hand, well I went down to get a pair and was told they went off sale 12-24 and wouldnt honor his word so I thought I would order a set Of The Axiom Mti 60's, And im glad I did, I like these much more than the Studio 60's by far.
Even with this crappy reciver and old DvD player im using they sound great, So im gona match them up with a NAD C352 Integrated Amp and the C521BEE CD player, I figure if they sound great with what I have now they should realy rock my boat with the NAD's.
Thanks for the Help

[anamorphic96]

Mark that will be a stellar set up. I have heard Axiom with NAD and its a sweet combo. I just picked up the C352 for myself and its a killer amp for the price.

Enjoy !!!

Cheers,
Glenn

[MikeyBC]

Watts are the biggest BS thing doled out to people over the last 20 years. You can crack wall plaster with deafening volume from less than 10 watts and get pretty pathetic loudness from 450watt systems.

I'm glad somebody has the guts to make that statement here, its the quality not the quantity that makes the real difference.