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  1. #1
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    Smile Is waiting longer worth it to budget to upgrade to Mcintosh ?

    Hello everyone.

    I found this site most informative and helpful, which is why I had to say hello and interact with you all.

    First of all I believe we are all here for the same reason. We love listening to music, regardless on what style, or genre it is.

    So the only thing that is stopping complete happiness, is the means, equipment that we own and use for music at home.

    This is why I am writing this post. I've hit a major crossroads because it is time to upgrade my system.

    I had some 'experts' come in a review my hi fi system, and agree with me, that my strongest component is my speakers. The imaging is incredible. However my receiver cannot give the juice the speakers need.

    Here is what I have :

    yamaha rx-v1300 receiver
    Dynaudio Contour 1.8 MK II's

    Ok, additional information regarding my personal audtioning for McIntosh :

    I have a pair of Dynaudio Contours 1.8 Mark II's, and just as the salesman said, I would
    be able to better detect if a CD recording was produced well, or not. I actually auditioned many brands of speakers, it took me 6 months and 30 shops to narrow it down to 3 brands. Dali, B&W, and Dynaudio. I managed to get the latter, and do not regret that decision.

    Now it took me 6 months before making an informed decision to part with that much money. It was no where near as 12K, but since we're talking about 12K, one word of advice that you don't have to be an audiophile, or genius to work out, take your SWEET time and audition as many systems as you can. Let your ears tell you what is good as well. I just think 12K worth of money is worth a lot of time to invest before parting. Maybe it's just that I'm old-fashioned. 12K isn't normally spare change. It's harder to justify a 12K bad choice, put it that way.

    I have listened recently to a McIntosh and B&W setup, it was from what I was told
    a 35K pair of B&W fronts (don't know which model).

    1x McIntosh MCD205 CD changer
    2x MC1201's
    1x McIntosh Control centre (sorry didn't take down the model number)

    The overall setup was about 75K to 80K.

    Then I put on 2 of my favourite CDs, and one SACD which is their copy in the shop.

    Now the CD I first played contained a mp3 song, which was obtained legally from the artist directly, it had to be a good produced mp3. When I played it on my system, I could hear the choirlike sample of about 5 to 8 voices.

    When I heard that same track in the shop, it was as if someone cleaned my ears out, I could hear an additional 20 voices in the same song. It was absolutely incredible.
    I auditioned a new CD I brought from last week, and it was great. I got a better kick from the mp3, so it really does make a difference what CD you feed it.

    I am going to find it extremely hard to find any alturnatives to McIntosh, perhaps it's the poor setups of all of the other shops that I've gone to. I just checked ebay before posting this post, that there are NO McIntosh items for sale. Only outside Australia. Ok there are not many Australian distributors (I am in Oz), but I have not heard of any returns or resales either. The only resales I have heard are tradeins for upgraded McIntosh gear.

    I'm thinking of getting a new power amp first, because for the time-being I can use the yamaha as a pre-amp. The 402 poweramp may be beyond what I need to drive my Dynaudio 1.8's, however the 402 is quadbalanced. Which I have been told is able to drive each channel much better. Correct me if I'm wrong on that.

    I have read a lot of reviews of different brands.

    So far most people have said nothing but positive things about McIntosh equipment.

    So far it's not within my budget yet, do you recommend it's worth the wait to eventually
    get it ? I'm thinking of the MC402 - Power Amplifier which is quad balanced.

    However the review I saw of my Dynaudio speakers state that am amp of 150 W, should be enough. However my receiver gives 100W, which from the extensive amount of hearing that I have done, it's definately not doing my speakers justice.

    Then eventually get the 201 CD/SACD player.

    I don't want to buy something that is half price, and not be satisfied with it 3 years down
    the track. I'd like to get it right the first time.

    Is it worth the wait ?

    I don't have that many choices in terms of brands in Australia.

    There's NAD Master series, Plinus, Anthem, Marantz.

    I'm also leaning more towards "balanced' connectivity and options for future
    components. I have read and been told from enough experts that the quality from a balanced connection is much better than unbalanced.

    If that is untrue, let me know.

    I have yet to find negative feedback about McIntosh, and I know from my own eyes that the equipment looks beautiful. It DOES sound very good, when I auditioned them, that is not in question.

    Any comments and advice would be appreciated
    Last edited by OzzieAudiophile; 04-01-2008 at 07:00 AM. Reason: To address my McIntosh question

  2. #2
    Ajani
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    If you really like the Sound of the McIntosh, then I'd suggest waiting.... You can rush to spend your money on a minor upgrade and be dissapointed in the long run, or take your time and get what you really want....

  3. #3
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    I don't have that many choices in terms of brands in Australia.

    There's NAD Master series, Plinus, Anthem, Marantz.
    Welcome OzzieAudiophile,

    I have a keen interest in this thread as I'm considering taking a job in Brisbane. Where are you living?

    The one thing I was wondering if I should sell or store my current rig and buy down there or take it with me and get some power converters. What would be available for speakers down under? Any comments would be appreciated.

    Cheers,

    LDB
    Last edited by Luvin Da Blues; 04-01-2008 at 06:40 AM.
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  4. #4
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    Hello Ajani.

    Well like I said, I've been thinking for a long time about budget for something cheaper now, or wait 6 months to budget for the McIntosh gear, and get 1 piece at a time.

    I don't know if the 252s would be enough to drive my dynaudio 1.8's, or I would need the 402. It's I think 250 W's per channel vs 400 W's per channel.

    My Dynaudio's are 250 W speakers, and from one website it's stating that an amp that can give 150W will be enough to drive them. However I have a Yamaha RX-V1300 and that gives 100 W per channel, and my speakers are really screaming out for more. I did get the receiver BEFORE the speakers.

    I am currently finding it very difficult to find an alturnative brand which performs as good.
    But each other component IS cheaper.

    I am not afraid to sacrifice my happiness (lol) in order to save up to get the McIntosh 252s or 402s. I need feedback of anyone who's used McIntosh, PLUS other brands of high end stuff to provide comparisons if that is possible

  5. #5
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    Gday Luvin Da Blues.

    Well I live in WA, which is as west as you can get. Brisbane is far away. Each state I'd say would have a slightly different market. Some brands sell better in some states than others.

    I don't know how it's all set up in Brisbane, what is high in demand etc. What you can do is look at all the major brands in hi fi and find out the list of Australian Distributors. I am not sure if the job you are considering taking up is working at a hi fi store or not, but if it is, then by doing your homework, you can find out which brands you will be trying to sell to your customers, before your company tells you.

    If you are going to work NOT in the hi fi industry, Brisbane , yeah check out the weather during the year so you know what to expect. Brisbane would be a busy area, like Perth is to WA.

    I can only tell you what is popular speakers here in WA, it 'might' be helpful.

    Harvey Norman normally go with Jensen, you won't find B&Ws, Dynaudio or Dali in those
    particular shops.

    The 'hi fi' specialists will stock B&W, Dynaudio and Dali mainly. There's a few which
    stock Jensen. Some stock Monitor (Audio is it) ?, probably not more than 20 brands in WA.
    A small market in terms of range. However pricewise, there is some really nice stuff
    going for more than 10K, 30K, 50K etc. If you got the bucks those brands, they can get them in.

    There is no way you have the flexibility and choice of brands as you would in the US, UK and the rest of Europe. Sorry, there's just a larger market in those countries. Not too many Australians have put themselves in the hi fi map making excellent gear lol.

    Australian Hi-Fi is an excellent magazine which audition the very hi end equipment.
    The jan issue audtioned Boulder series Amp, which go for about 20K, but it has 4 balanced inputs (drool....).

    Good luck.

  6. #6
    _ Luvin Da Blues's Avatar
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    Thanks Ozzie,

    The job is actually in the mining engineering/environmental field. The company is a Canadian firm base out of Vancouver and they have a office in Brisbane. I feel that they're going to give me an offer soon then I'll decide if I want to take it. It would be a HUGE move.

    I have checked out they weather and just about everything I could think of that would influence my decision. There wouldn't be too much culture shock and the work visa is for 4 years (renewable) so I could come back if things don't turn out for the best.

    Anyway, thanks for the tips, I'll be sure to check them out.

    Cheers,

    LDB
    Back in my day, we had nine planets.

  7. #7
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    I have yet to find negative feedback about McIntosh, and I know from my own eyes that the equipment looks beautiful. It DOES sound very good, when I auditioned them, that is not in question.

    Any comments and advice would be appreciated

    Hi, welcome to AR.

    as a Mcintosh owner, I can honestly tell you that if you like th Mcintosh sound (and it seems that you do) Nothing else will do.

    nothing.

    going from that yamaha to a Mcintosh will be a world of difference. and even 250 Mcwatts will be more than enough to drive the dyn's. in fact, you'll have plenty of headroom...

    I'm driving a power hungry set of thiels with a 100 mcwatts, and I never had any problems whatsoever, and the setup just keeps impressing me.

    with the 252, you'll need a preamp too though, a poweramp alone won't be enough, unless you're planning on using your yamaha as a pre, but unless the budget doesn't allow otherwise, I wouldn't recommend it

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  8. #8
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    Thanks basite

    Gday Bert.

    Thanks for both the welcome and your advice regarding the McIntosh.

    I appreciate the feedback, yes I had a feeling that the 252 would be enough for my Dyns.

    I've compared the differences between the 252 and 402 apart from how much
    power it can give.

    The 402 has the following two extra features :

    1. Quad-differential design cancels virtually all distortion and consists of four complete amplifier circuits, each a mirror image of the other, whose outputs are combined in the unique McIntosh made autoformers, delivering absolute transparency and musical accuracy into loads of 2, 4, or 8 ohms.

    2. Fully Balanced Input to Output

    I have no idea what they mean by 2. The 252 doesn't say 2. it says Balanced and Unbalanced Inputs instead.

    I currently have no idea what prices each unit is, I'm waiting for a quote, but I'm in
    no hurry to get anything yet due to my budget.

    If the 2 features are worth the extra money then I may save up the extra to get it.
    If the asking price for the 402 is too great, I may have no choice but to decline that
    one. I'm sure most prices are way overinflated in Australia compared to USA/UK.

    To answer your question, yes I do intend to use my Yamaha as my pre-amp for the
    time-being. I'll eventually get a matching McIntosh pre-amp, however that answer may
    change depending on the answer to this question :

    One other thing about Balanced/XLR connections, obviously you would connect via XLR
    from Pre to Power Amp. Now despite I have other components/sources which are
    NOT balanced, do I still take the full advantage of "fully balanced" signal from source
    to finally out of my speakers ? Or is the signal too degraded through an unbalanced
    connection to the preamp, it will NOT improve from the pre to power amp process,
    despite that they are connected via XLR ?

    If the answer is NO all of your components must have balanced outputs and connect
    directly via XLR into my pre or the sources will suffer degration, then I see no point getting
    a McIntosh Pre-amp.

    I have been told that the pre-amp is basically a means for volume control and to plug
    things in. Well the yamaha receiver can do that, and will have 5x as many inputs as
    any McIntosh pre-amp. Someone, please answer the question

  9. #9
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    the 252 has the balanced inputs (XLR) as well as the unbalanced inputs (RCA), but it's not a balanced design. The 402 is a balanced design, you could almost say that it was built for using the XLR's. To get the full benefit out of it, you do need a fully balanced pre too.

    In terms of sound quality, the 402 Is better than the 252, but you'll have to decide if the extra money is worth it...


    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  10. #10
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    Hi Bert, thanks again

    Gday Bert.

    I received feedback from E-Stat, who stated the following regarding the PowerGuard
    feature that is McIntosh technology :

    "Actually most any amp has some sort of internal VI current limiting designed primarily to protect the amplifier, not the speaker. Some brands, however, like Pass Labs don't need such because the output stage is more capable. I think you are referring to their Power Guard circuitry. It's a compressor. Sorry, but I think compromising the signal by putting a compressor in the signal path on a presumed high end product to protect speakers from clueless folks who don't understand (or hear) clipping is ridiculous. You find that on mid-fi and pro gear."

    Stepping back a bit, being a 'consumer' for the purpose of this thread, I am finding it
    difficult to know which members on here are speaking more from a salesman perspective,
    which ones own McIntosh, and which ones never owned McIntosh. I am not having a go at
    anyone, and not pointing fingers, I appreciate all feedback and help.

    Out of the 10 brands I have auditioned, only the McIntosh 402 upwards offer "fully
    balanced" input/output.

    Audio Research, VTL, Pass Labs, BAT, Conrad-Johnson are recommended that I
    look at, if possible. So I'll ring up and find out if any of those exist in WA.

    I am considering the Parasound A21 Power Amp with the P3 Pre-Amp, the A21 will
    provide 400 W per channel, but is not fully balanced. I have also been told that Dynaudio
    speakers LOVE current, so the McIntosh 402 will also provide 400 W per channel on
    4 Ohms. I guess having extra reserve power wouldn't harm my system either.

    Just re-interating, I did audition the MC1201 with the MCD205 , it was an incrediable
    listening experience, nothing that can be said on this thread can change that fact.

    Mind you, simply budget will stop me from getting anything more than a MC402
    (pending quoted price).

    If I choose to go with McIntosh, it will be my intention to get the McIntosh pre, and
    MCD205 or MCD201. I (may) be able to get a good price for the MCD205 as it has a
    slight dent on the top case (top left hand corner).

    BlingBling72
    Last edited by OzzieAudiophile; 04-02-2008 at 03:24 AM.

  11. #11
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Gday Bert.

    I received feedback from E-Stat, who stated the following regarding the PowerGuard
    feature that is McIntosh technology :

    "Actually most any amp has some sort of internal VI current limiting designed primarily to protect the amplifier, not the speaker. Some brands, however, like Pass Labs don't need such because the output stage is more capable. I think you are referring to their Power Guard circuitry. It's a compressor. Sorry, but I think compromising the signal by putting a compressor in the signal path on a presumed high end product to protect speakers from clueless folks who don't understand (or hear) clipping is ridiculous. You find that on mid-fi and pro gear."

    Stepping back a bit, being a 'consumer' for the purpose of this thread, I am finding it
    difficult to know which members on here are speaking more from a salesman perspective,
    which ones own McIntosh, and which ones never owned McIntosh. I am not having a go at
    anyone, and not pointing fingers, I appreciate all feedback and help.

    Out of the 10 brands I have auditioned, only the McIntosh 402 upwards offer "fully
    balanced" input/output.

    Audio Research, VTL, Pass Labs, BAT, Conrad-Johnson are recommended that I
    look at, if possible. So I'll ring up and find out if any of those exist in WA.

    I am considering the Parasound A21 Power Amp with the P3 Pre-Amp, the A21 will
    provide 400 W per channel, but is not fully balanced. I have also been told that Dynaudio
    speakers LOVE current, so the McIntosh 402 will also provide 400 W per channel on
    4 Ohms. I guess having extra reserve power wouldn't harm my system either.

    Just re-interating, I did audition the MC1201 with the MCD205 , it was an incrediable
    listening experience, nothing that can be said on this thread can change that fact.

    Mind you, simply budget will stop me from getting anything more than a MC402
    (pending quoted price).

    If I choose to go with McIntosh, it will be my intention to get the McIntosh pre, and
    MCD205 or MCD201. I (may) be able to get a good price for the MCD205 as it has a
    slight dent on the top case (top left hand corner).

    BlingBling72
    Two Points:

    1) All the brands you are considering (McIntosh, Parasound, Audio Research, VTL, Pass Labs, BAT & Conrad-Johnson) are well respected... so deciding which one to use will really just come down to which one sound best to you and gives you enough power....

    2) I know you're not bashing any members (you just don't know who to listen to and who to ignore yet)... but E-Stat is definitely someone to listen to, as he knows his audio... That said, everything still comes down to what sounds good to you...

  12. #12
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    Auditioning other brands

    Hi Bert.

    Thanks for the feedback. You raised a very good point, who's advice carries what weight
    lol.

    As I said, no disrespect intended. There are advantages and disadvatages of being in
    WA, Australia being exposed to very few hi-end hi fi brands.

    Disadvantage : Not many choices, so suffering from variety.

    Advantage : Not many choices, save times auditioning so many brands.

    Ok, I've taken a look at the other recommended brands, here is what I have found :

    VTL, Pass Labs, are not available in WA.

    Conrad-Johnson - at least 2x the price, and that's on special. RRP is 12K minimum


    BAT : JACKPOT, the same shop that is selling McIntosh on their link state that they
    stock BAT as well.

    I will find out if the VK-250 is available, and obtain a price.

    Thankyou Mr Bert, and Mr E-Stat.

  13. #13
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Gday Bert.

    I received feedback from E-Stat, who stated the following regarding the PowerGuard
    feature that is McIntosh technology :

    with my 100 watt Mcintosh integrated, I have rarely seen the power guard lights go on. That was driving power hungry thiels.

    at the moment you see the power guard lights light up on the amp, on a 402, you'll be pretty much deaf...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  14. #14
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by basite
    ...at the moment you see the power guard lights light up on the amp, on a 402, you'll be pretty much deaf...
    I'm not trying to be difficult here, but one necessarily incurs a sonic compromise simply by putting the input to output comparator in the signal path. Most high end audio components, on the other hand, strive for a simplified gain path. Compressors are found in many pro amps that are regularly overdriven and otherwise abused where sonic quality is a secondary consideration to power and reliability under all conditions.

    My 27 year old Threshold Stasis has neither any sort of in circuit compressor nor any protection circuitry. It has thirty-two closely matched 150 watt output devices to source its 100 watt per channel output which obviates the need for such. And it has been utterly reliable in that many years.

    I have found that simple is usually better with the sonic performance of audio circuits.

    rw

  15. #15
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    BAT : JACKPOT, the same shop that is selling McIntosh on their link state that they stock BAT as well.
    Victor Khomenko makes some excellent amplifiers in both tube and solid state models. A Russian immigrant to the states, his entire family worked at the Svetlana tube factory in St. Petersburg at one time or another. As one might assume by the company name, all of his amps are balanced.

    rw

  16. #16
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    Cool Thankyou Gentlemen

    Thanks again for your input (input - no pun intended).

    Thankyou for the "balanced" view (I think I'm in my Austin Powers mood) :P

    I just hope that the store I will go to stock B.A.T. otherwise it's going to trim down my
    options again.

    I guess what I am limited to is the quality of the rest of my components, there is a saying,

    "Your hi fi system is only as good as it's weakest component"

    My Dyns are good, but obviously not the supreme of all speakers. My CD/DVD 5-disc
    changer is a panasonic one, which does a great job feature-wise, however nowhere
    near the league of anything of "quality".

    I don't believe paying the extra 5K to 10K will really come out on my overall system.
    However I do intend to get a high-end CD player. My collection is over 800 CDs, and
    500 DVDs.

    I took a look at the B.A.T. products, they don't look so asthetically pleasing, but it's by
    far not the most important features I seek in a component. It will be interesting to find out
    what prices they are in comparison to the McIntosh options.

    All that I do know is that of all the ones I have auditioned so far, McIntosh is on a level
    way above the rest.

    As much as I can dream about it, there is no way I could literally afford anything near
    the 10K range. Keep in mind that I still have a pre-amp (95% sure I'll need to use one
    instead of using my Yamaha as one), then a decent CD/SACD player. I figured that
    I would definately want a CD player that can play SACD's properly, and access the
    actual SACD layers. I have a few SACDs, and they are all incredible quality.

    The best ones I have are :

    Dire Straits Brothers In Arms (20th Anniversary Edition), 3-layer, remastered by
    Mark Knopfler himself

    Best of the Carpenters

    Jeff Wayne's - The War of the Worlds (2 SACD).

    Andrea Bocelli - Andrea

    Your hi end hi fi system would absolutely sing like angels in heaven if you auditioned
    any of the above.

    I have Emma Shapplin's Etterna on DVD Audio (absolutely incredible voice and quality).

    I guess one other component I neglected to mention, another element I can add into
    my overall hifi equation :

    I have contact details of a Profesional Electrical Company which provide various
    Surge Protection, and similar products/services.

    One of them is an 8-outlet system that will provide a 'constant' 240 V throughout
    all 8 outlets. Now it was pointed out to me that hifi equipment is able to provide optimal
    performance if they are operating at precisely 240 V (that is the Australian standard),
    I believe the way that it works, is that it constantly monitors how much is being fed, and will
    prevent any 'additional', and make up for moments where it dips below that level.
    I would imagine it would be expensive because it requires hookups with the overall
    electrical system, the meter box, everything. I wouldn't be surpised if that is the same cost
    as half of what my hifi system is worth

    The sole company which provide our power, does not guarantee a consistant/constant
    240 V supply. I don't know the costs involved, but having such an installation would
    surely make an improvement.

    Any equivalent product is used by any of you guys ? If so, what was the noticable
    difference ? Much of a difference ? or all hype ?

  17. #17
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    Hello, I have added a new threat, in the "General Audio" Section.

    The topic is called,

    "Requirements to turn your room into an Optimal Listening Environment"

    Please take your time to read, and pass comments, add recommendations if you can.

    Thankyou muchly.

    BK.

  18. #18
    Shostakovich fan Feanor's Avatar
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    McIntosh?

    Mac? Why not? Well, you heard E-Stat's comments. But a great deal has to do with availability in your locale. Also, whether you would consider used equipment.

    Personally if buying new equipment (on a generous budget), I'd consider Pass Labs and Ayre amplification first, then perhaps BAT, Audio Research (ARC), VTL, Conrad Johnson, and Monarchy (for powers amps), ahead McIntosh,.

    For used equipment I wouldn't dispise any of the foregoing, including McIntosh models made in the last decade of so.

    Don't obsess about balanced versus single-ended. If components are internally single-ended, (as are most McIntosh and Conrad Johnson -- to my limited knowledge), then balance connections aren't important except for very long runs of interconnecting cable. I believe Pass, Ayre, and of course BAT components are mostly balanced; between fully balanced components, balanced connections can be very synergistic.
    Last edited by Feanor; 04-03-2008 at 06:45 AM.

  19. #19
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Have you listend to the Plinus amps. I think that they have a wonderful sound. They are very expensive here in the States.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  20. #20
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    Feedback back x2

    Hi blackraven.

    Thanks for the tip, yes there is one shop which stock Plinius. I'll have to audition that
    properly, will do tomorrow. I got some prices, the models appear to be relately old ones
    in comparison to what you can get outside Australia

    Feanor - thanks for the feedback, it's appreciated.

    Used equipment ? There's only perhaps 3 or 4 shops which sell any used equipment, and
    those are that old, I think Elvis himself was usin

    Those used hifi gear are cheaper than my cables
    You may use them if you needed a decent paperweight

    No such thing as hi-end gear as used equipment in those shops. We probably wouldn't
    have more than 50 hifi shops in WA. 30 of them are low-end to middle-range.

    Ok, Pass Labs and Ayre, BAT, Audio Research (ARC), VTL, and Monarchy all NOT
    available in WA

    Conrad Johnson yes one shop does stock it, but only 2 models, and they won't get
    any more in for you unless you buy it, which I'm not prepared to do.

    CA200 - $8K (no balanced outs)
    LP70S - $9K (no balanced outs)

    I'll add these prices to ALL of my options to my topic above.

    Thanks.

  21. #21
    Ajani
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    No such thing as hi-end gear as used equipment in those shops. We probably wouldn't
    have more than 50 hifi shops in WA. 30 of them are low-end to middle-range.
    What Middle range brands are available? I'm not going to suggest that they might sound better than McIntosh, but they may be such a substantial step up from your Yamaha Receiver that you won't feel the need to spend the extra money on the really high-end stuff.

    You might want to check if you can audition NAD Masters Series, Marantz Reference or Musical Fidelity gear etc....

  22. #22
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    In reply to Anjani

    Hi. Well I've decided to close all doors, in terms of, it's high end, or nothing.

    One thing has to be made clear, I'm NOT silly enough to realise that I need to spend,
    X-amount of money minimum to get the high level of detail I need out of my music.

    However, the middle-range products are like the $300 jobs, the all-in-one systems, that
    all come in 1 box etc, that can fit in the boot of your car. My Yamaha receiver is at least
    10x better than all of those options.

    It's quality like low-end bookshelf systems, more for practical and space saver reasons.
    Nothing wrong with those, but whatever I want to get, I want to be completely happy with
    it, not just now, but 5 to 10 years down the track.

    Well to answer your question, Yes I can make just one addition, use my Yamaha as
    my pre-amp, and still get a decent power amp that can better drive my speakers.

    Everyone can forget about removing my speakers out of the equation, these puppies need
    a lot of juice, and I will need a very good amp to get the best out of it.

    The paramount thing is that I "need" to get the best listening experience out of my
    system, home, as possible.

    However I can safely rule out 99% of everything, rule out low to mid end components, and
    anything that costs more than 10K.

    80% of all high end gear in WA costs $12K or more

    Ok, I found out my two McIntosh options :

    MC252 7.2 K
    MC402 10 K

    YES you see my point ? We have to pay much more than you guys in Europe or the USA.

    Ebay, no McIntosh gear in Australia, as if they would part with it. In the US, yes
    people will sell it on Ebay, but then you have different current settings, which I'm not
    willing to fiddle about with, plus no warranty etc.

    I won't consider second hand, for warrantee purposes. It's only my personal prefernece,
    and I think it's perfectly fine for anyone to buy second hand gear. Problem with that is
    that you have no idea how good/or badly the previous owner treated that component,
    it may be half way out because all the years of overheating due to poor ventilation etc.

    I took a listen to the Master Series, but the Universal player for example has too many
    features missing (no Balanced out !!), the CD playback doesn't hold a torch to McIntosh.
    The SACD playback is not the best either. Look it's fine, but it's nearly 4.5 K here.

    Everything in NAD Master Series is 4.5 K , I cannot justify 4.5 K for that series.

    I have found many returns of those components, due to overheating, or the power
    supply fried. It may be due to user error (i.e. poor placemant causing poor ventilation), but
    I cannot assume all of them have made the same mistake.

    The hifi store has pulled the plug on NAD due to too many returns.

    There is basically at least one feature or another that is missing in the NAD Master
    series in each component, it's too frustrating to justify 4.5 K to go without the
    features.

    The surround sound pre and power amp, have NO balanced connections.

    So no point buying the SACD/CD player, as that has balanced outs.

    Feedback I received the reps redistibutor is that their R&D will consider the missing
    features for their next models, assuming he wasn't talking porky's.

    The NAD M15 appears to be exactly the same as my Yamaha receiver, except the M15
    has 2 HDMI in. My Yahama has at least 2.5 x as many inputs !!, and 2x as many
    surround modes.

    Only their integrated amp has a balanced in.

  23. #23
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    So I get either a FULLY Balanced system, or probably no balanced at all

    Well by foregoing XLR altogether it certainly provides me cheaper and more options.

    From Feanor's and E-Stat's comments in my Poll Thread, to get the "full" benefit of
    balanced connection from source to pre-power, the pre and the power must both be
    fully-balanced.

    It appears that for that to happen with the McIntosh brand, that's going to set me back
    at least 16K that kind of money I certainly do not have.

    There are many other components which have XLR outs, but are not "fully balanced".

    I could consider the Parasound A21 + either the P3 or the JC2 (I'd assume the best
    connection would be XLR, however it doesn't state that the components are fully
    balanced.

    A21 is just over 4K
    P3 about 1.7 K
    JC21 about 7K

    The other option is to just get a power AMP, probably the Parasound A21, and
    keep with the Yamaha RX-V1300 to use as a pre-amp.

    What I really want is a Universal Disc player, which will upscale DVD to either 720p /
    1080i, can play SACD, and have balanced outputs

    There's a Parasound D3 for 3.6 K

    I would imagine the McIntosh CD/SACD, and Multi players would cost at least 6K.

    My player will have to be DAMN good, because I have a LOT of CDs.

    I have yet to actually sit down and compare the same components, with a single-ended
    connection, and a XLR connection. I would like my ears to tell me.

    Anyone tried/owned/or know anyone who owned Parasound Halo Series ?
    and how was the go with it ?

  24. #24
    I took a headstart... basite's Avatar
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    the parasounds aren't fully balanced. Just like the MC252, they also offer XLR (balanced) inputs, but aren't fully internally balanced.

    and if I were to choose between the parasound and the 252, i'd pick the 252 anytime.

    oh, if you are dropping the idea of getting a Mc though (financially, they do seem to be pretty expensive over there
    then also check out Primare...

    Keep them spinning,
    Bert.
    Life is music!

    Mcintosh MA6400 Integrated
    Double Advent speakers
    Thiel CS2.3's
    *DIY Lenco L75 TT
    * SME 3012 S2
    * Rega RB-301
    *Denon DL-103 in midas body
    *Denon DL-304
    *Graham slee elevator EXP & revelation
    *Lehmann audio black cube SE
    Marantz CD5001 OSE
    MIT AVt 2 IC's
    Sonic link Black earth IC's
    Siltech MXT New york IC's
    Kimber 4VS speakercable
    Furutech powercord and plugs.

    I'm a happy 20 year old...

  25. #25
    Music Junkie E-Stat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    Well by foregoing XLR altogether it certainly provides me cheaper and more options.
    I'm not convinced that balanced connections are necessarily better. With certain systems, yes. They were designed to reduce noise for extremely long cable runs. My longest run is 2 meters.

    Quote Originally Posted by OzzieAudiophile
    w anyone who owned Parasound Halo Series ?
    and how was the go with it ?
    I have heard the JC-1 / JC-2 combo driving Sound LAB Majestics. AMR Cd player. It was during a meeting of the Chicago Audio Society and both Richard Schram of Parasound and Dr. West of Sound LAB were both there. Superb sound, but I wouldn't trade the amps for my VTL tubes. I'm not sure if they were run balanced, but both are most certainly balanced in their design. Above the JC-2 is John Curl's ultimate preamp, the Blowtorch.



    rw

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