E-stat & tubesters, I need help

[Mr Peabody]

I am auditioning the ARC LS16 and 150.2 this weekend and I'm on the computer instead of rockin'. I know ARC has a good rep and I've heard ARC some time back that I loved but this gear I have isn't cutting it. It doesn't sound terrible, I just don't like it much and it's not what I was looking for. When I listen to the Krell, even with the Audio Note DAC, I sense space or darkness between the instruments and sounds but with the ARC it's like something is in that space. There is high end but the overall sound is veiled or dry. There's some presence but not like I was expecting from tubes and the fleshing out wasn't there. I actually found the sound less engaging than my current system instead of more engaging, which is what I was going for.

I guess the big question is, is what I'm experiencing a ARC thing or a tube thing?

My next choice to try is a Conrad Johnson PV14ls and a used MF2100. The 2100 is solid state and the PV14 tubed. I was also considering the MV60 tube power amp but I don't think it would have the power I need. I was also looking at a cool pair of Audio Valve monoblocks. They are more money than I wanted to spend but they would be the ultimate tube power within my reach. Anyone familiar with AV?

So any guidance for one seeking tubes?

[Geoffcin]

I am auditioning the ARC LS16 and 150.2 this weekend and I'm on the computer instead of rockin'. I know ARC has a good rep and I've heard ARC some time back that I loved but this gear I have isn't cutting it. It doesn't sound terrible, I just don't like it much and it's not what I was looking for. When I listen to the Krell, even with the Audio Note DAC, I sense space or darkness between the instruments and sounds but with the ARC it's like something is in that space. There is high end but the overall sound is veiled or dry. There's some presence but not like I was expecting from tubes and the fleshing out wasn't there. I actually found the sound less engaging than my current system instead of more engaging, which is what I was going for.

I guess the big question is, is what I'm experiencing a ARC thing or a tube thing?

My next choice to try is a Conrad Johnson PV14ls and a used MF2100. The 2100 is solid state and the PV14 tubed. I was also considering the MV60 tube power amp but I don't think it would have the power I need. I was also looking at a cool pair of Audio Valve monoblocks. They are more money than I wanted to spend but they would be the ultimate tube power within my reach. Anyone familiar with AV?

So any guidance for one seeking tubes?

And bought a Mark Levinson pre. He also bought a Plinius amp to share duty with the Krell. I'm going to swap my PS Audio HCA-2 with him next week for the Krell, so I'll be able to give you a direct comparison from both him and myself.

[RGA]

I can;t comment on the ARC but I would be careful with tube amp assumptions -- some have the stereotype sound which is warm or veiled and some you would be very hard pressed in a blind session to not believe that is a Solid state amp. Of course some SS amps are designed to sound like a tube - my Sugden A48 was such an amp -- though it had no frequency limiter so its bass depth pummelled the MF A300 at many times the price.

Your sdescription reminds me a little bit of what i heard out of Copland -- which was one of my first exposures to tube amplifiers and I was unimpressed - probably why I never really pursued tube amps for quite a while.

Honestly I am probably going to be ignored for suggesting this but why not buy another set of speakers. I don;t mean replace yours at all -- I would try and listen to a complete tube based (ahem!) set-up with speakers that are designed solely for the amplifier then get an inexpensive speaker from that company for a second system and then figure out which amp pre or integrated will fit the bill. Dynaudio and Tubes just don't sound like a good match "It's very simple. Vacuum tubes are high impedence devices, typically in excess of 5k ohms. Loudspeakers are low impedence devices, nominally 4-8 ohms. There has to be an interface between the high impedence plate of the output tube and the low impedence voice coil of the loudspeaker, therefore a transformer is used."

Just because the tube amp has lots of watts doesn't mean anything -- IMO tubes are a big pain in the arse.