Does more power=Better Sound?

[sjtm]

I have managed to stop spending money on equipment (for the moment) and am enjoying my current setup quite a lot. However, I keep wondering whether the amount of power delivery of my amp is holding back the potential of my speakers. My amp is a Marantz pm8005 integrated delivering 70WPC @8ohm /100wpc@4ohms. The speakers are Focal 836V with an sensitivity of 92db @8ohm which drops down to 3ohm at 110hz ( and I believe stays below 4 ohm though around 500hz based on measurements of its sucessor, the Focal Aria 936).

My listening room is not very large ( but oddly shaped L configuration). Seating position is nearfield - about 8' from speakers. I am not trying to attain more volume - just wondering if I would obtain more resolution and detail at lower volume as these speakers seem to really open up at higher listening levels, but some resolution is lost with the volume low. Perhaps this is just the nature of any loudspeaker, but if an amp change is a way to improve this, I could use some guidance. Thanks

[blackraven]

More power sometimes helps with better sound. Higher power can help with dynamics at high and low volumes but it has to be clean high power. What you are experiencing at lower volumes is typical. There is typically a drop off in dynamics. The preamp also plays a role in this. I have a Pass amp that is 500wpc at 4 ohms. It sounded great at low volumes and was very dynamic when I used a Pass preamp. I sold the Pass preamp and bought BAT preamp that cost $3K more. The BAT sounds better in every way and it is much more dynamic at normal and loud volumes but at low volumes the Pass had it beat dynamically.

Amps also make a difference. The AVA HiFi R series amps sound great at low volumes.
Where high current and high watt amps come into play is in their ability to deliver the power cleanly and immediately when needed without any strain or distortion. They seem to hit harder.

Keep in mind that most speakers sound their best at medium to medium loud volumes.

[Mr Peabody]

More power with all things being equal will not provide more detail or resolution.

I think what is happening, as the volume gets raised it's easier for you to hear detail. Does the 8005 have a "loudness" control? This is sometimes added to gear to compensate for what you are experiencing. Some are even variable. If so, turn it on while listening at low levels.

Usually a high current amp will drive the speakers better at lower levels, you will know a high current amp as they typically will double their power into 4 ohms from the 8 ohm rating. For instance, your amp would do 140 into 4 ohms. The higher current allows the amp to control the drivers better. So generally these amps will sound more powerful and have better bass.

Higher power gives you more headroom, meaning it has reserve power when the music demands more power. This also requires a good power supply and can be achieved with a good bank of capacitance.

Overall resolution and detail usually comes from an amp having better parts or design.

With all that being said, there are certain brands/models of speakers that just sound better with a good shot of power. I would think at 92dB your speaker shouldn't be so bad at lower levels.

If it's just you listening a decent set of headphones could be the answer.

[Mr Peabody]

Looks like no loudness control on the PM8005. You do have a midrange control, you could play with that to see if it helps. On paper Marantz says the 8005 has a "robust" power supply. The problem is there though or you wouldn't have posted. If the Focal are biampable you do have preamp outputs to add a power amp. You also have two sets of speaker terminals, you could try bi-wiring to see if it helps at all.

I did see mention of a "direct" mode which I believe bypasses the tone controls etc. You may want to make sure this is off at low volume as the tone controls will add some richness at lower volume.

[sjtm]

This may be less of a problem than my writing makes it seem. I truly enjoy the overall sound from both analogue and digital sources at normal listeneing levels. At my advanced age, the limitation could be my hearing, not the speakers or amp. But we newbies never know whether throwing more money at the situation yields meaningful results.

I plan to sit tight for now, but have read up on integrated that might represent my "next step. My short list includes:

Pass Labs INT-150. I think this meets the definition of "high Current" amp.

Krell Vanguard

Marantz PM 11s3 - not quite the doubling of power but seems to be a good all in one solution with an integrated phono mm/mc stage

Simaudio Moon 5i - not sure about this or newer versions

Modwright KWI 200

Hegel H200 - local dealer that occasionally gets used and will let you demo at home for a week

Budget option - Marantz PM 15s2 or 14s1

Opinions on any of these options greatly appreciated. I will only be buying used at this point.

[Feanor]

This may be less of a problem than my writing makes it seem. I truly enjoy the overall sound from both analogue and digital sources at normal listeneing levels. At my advanced age, the limitation could be my hearing, not the speakers or amp. But we newbies never know whether throwing more money at the situation yields meaningful results.

I plan to sit tight for now, but have read up on integrated that might represent my "next step. My short list includes:

Pass Labs INT-150. I think this meets the definition of "high Current" amp.

Krell Vanguard

Marantz PM 11s3 - not quite the doubling of power but seems to be a good all in one solution with an integrated phono mm/mc stage

Simaudio Moon 5i - not sure about this or newer versions

Modwright KWI 200

Hegel H200 - local dealer that occasionally gets used and will let you demo at home for a week

Budget option - Marantz PM 15s2 or 14s1

Opinions on any of these options greatly appreciated. I will only be buying used at this point.

The Simaudio model that's more comparable with, say, the Pass INT-150 would be the 700i ... High-end Integrated Amplifier - Integrated Amplifier| Simaudio

[blackraven]

If your Marantz has a preamp out, you should consider a used power amp like the Pass X150, X250 or a McCormack DNA. Plinius makes some nice sounding amps and there is one for sale on the Audio Circles forum

FS: Plinius SA-100 MKIII - $1,850 - Execellent Condition DC/MD/VA


Here is a Pass X150.5 amp-

Pass Labs X150.5 for sale, excellent condition

And here is a great deal on a used Parasound Halo A21. I own one of these-

Parasound Halo A21 Black

[Mr Peabody]

It depends on the type of sound you like. I am personally a big Pass fan, it typically has power and control of a Krell but warmer and rich closer to Marantz but better.

I have not heard recent Krell, they used to be iron grip control and hit like a sledge hammer with a neutral sound. I've heard the newer Krell is less cool or analytical sounding.

I am personally not a Sim Audio fan, they are very well built and popular, it's just my taste, I find them to sound "dry". They definitely have a "house" sound, but many brands do. So you have to hear it to decide if it's to your liking.

If you really like your current Marantz, like it's the one, obviously a higher end Marantz would give you more of what you like at a higher quality.

I have no experience with the Hagel or Modwright. The Pass or Krell would give your speakers the current they need to sound decent at lower listening, the Sim would as well.

It may not be on par as the higher end models you are looking at but you may want to consider the Parasound integrated. Don't lt the modest price fool you, it's an excellent value and from what I hear selling like crazy. There are places online that would sell you one with return option if not happy. Just an option, I still think the Pass & Krell would sound better but would he difference warrant the price. If you are looking at used you may want to also look at the Mark Levinson 383.

[blackraven]

I didn't recommend those amps just because of their high power. They all are rated highly and sound good. In addition, they run in Class A for the first 10-20 wpc and they would provide power should the OP decide to get less efficient speakers in the future. They may also help with dynamics at lower volumes. With those Focal's, those amps will be running in Class A the majority of the time.

I agree with Mr. P about the Parasound Intergrated. I own the Parasound Halo A21 along with my Pass. The A21 sounds excellent but it is not on the same playing field at the Pass, although the A21 does have better attack and a crisper sound than the Pass.