Cambridge Audio Azur 540A VS. NAD C320 BEE

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Originally Posted by Walker

Hi Tons of fun and others,
I have some questions about my new 540a.
I'm a little concerned about the power of this amp. I have to crank it to 12 o'clock (on some older cd's, Fleetwood Mac Rumors) to get some feel of a powerful sound. It's probably still breaking in (played it for about 30 hours now) but I must say that the lower end is almost completely lacking. The sound is very thin and not at all convincing. The detail is great, much better than my HK and Onkyo, especially in the drums it's incredible what I have been missing.
But again I could not throw a good party with it the way it sounds now, you don't feel it; basically it does not rock (yet). Is this normal for this amp (after only 30 hours on low levels most of the time) or are my speakers a wrong match?
Thanks for advice.

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Your amp is now giving your speakers what you feed it. The fact that there's less bottom end is not because your amp is not driving your speakers well, in fact it's driving them BETTER. What you used to think was good bass, was actually distortion caused by your old amps inability to control your woofer, allowing it to distort. This is a common problem with amps that have low damping factor. The fact the the drums sound better is a hallmark of a good amp.The sudden attack of a drum strike, and the shimmer of a cymble with mulitple harmonics are very difficult things to reproduce well.

With your speakers the amp is not really working unless your've got it really load. So if your worried about turning your volume up and "blowing" something don't. You want your speakers to rock? Turn up the VOLUME! You'll find that as it get's louder there's more apparent bass, as human hearing is very non-linear in the bass range. My guess, and it's an educated one, as my buddy has the same speakers as you do for surrounds, is that your speakers will ROCK is your just turn it up a bit.

Synergy is a big factor in achieving good audio.B&W 's are not very easy to drive speakers. Although they are specified to be around 90 db I have found them to be very difficult to drive unless you have lots of high current power.The dealer whom I know uses high power Rotel amps with them.They drive them perfectly well. Why don't you do an home demo of any high power amps like the Nad c 372, higher powered CA amps or some Rotel high power amps to drive away all the doubts that you have...

Look Sharp! sounds great. Really, well, for lack of a better word...sharp! The remaster puts back a lot more of the punk punch. I upgraded that one from cassette so no question it was better. Now, thanks to Topspeed, I'm going to have to go and drop some bills on Jumpin' Jive, again, (a desert island top 10 in my opinion). In general, just about every remaster from the 80's sounds better. The first issues were seldom well done. I actually bough two Police Ghost in the Machine CDs several years apart that sounded way worse than cassette. I'm still p*ssed about that. Did it ever get done right?

I don't know how many Jazz fans are reading (but since we're drifting off topic anyway). Some worth while remasters of some must haves include 1) Miles Davis Kind of Blue, 2) Dave Brubeck Take Five, and my personal fave Charles Mingus Mingus Ah Um. All worth the upgrade. The Bonus Tracks on Ah Um are good.

noddin0ff

I used the CA 540a for over a week now and I'm still bouncing between happy and miserable. Sometimes the sound is annoying and I have to play another cd. Tonight I’m going to do a (semi blind ) test with some friend. I’m going to compare the CA to my Onkyo and HK. I now know exactly witch cd’s sound good and bad on this amp so I’m curious to find out if I’m getting crazy or not.
I’ll report on my test tomorrow.
Maybe I’m just not worthy.
Walker

Good luck and remember what Geoff said: You're hearing the truth.

As your rig becomes more and more revealing and transparent, it becomes less forgiving, especially of sh!tty recordings. It's a double edged sword my friend. The payoff is when you hear great recordings where you not only hear the music but are emotionally involved with it. Overly romanticized? Not at all, I'm dead serious. You'll know it when you hear it.

BTW, you're not going crazy. If anything, the wool has finally been removed from your eyes (ok, ears).

You're right Topspeed it's a double edged sword.
Overall the CA beat the other two by far, now there is no way back. I can't believe I enjoyed the sound of HK for so long. The clarity and detail of the CA is incomparable to the other two amps (HK 75w & Onkyo 100w).
Though the Onkyo sounded rather stiff compared to the CA (at higher volume) the sound of the Onkyo was more pleasing and embracing at low volumes. The CA sounds very petite at low volumes. My conclusion: I like the CA but I don’t love it, my goal for the future is to find an amp that has the clarity, air and detail of the CA but also has the ability to sound convincing at low volume levels (more body).
Any suggestions?
Walker

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Originally Posted by Walker

You're right Topspeed it's a double edged sword.
Overall the CA beat the other two by far, now there is no way back. I can't believe I enjoyed the sound of HK for so long. The clarity and detail of the CA is incomparable to the other two amps (HK 75w & Onkyo 100w).
Though the Onkyo sounded rather stiff compared to the CA (at higher volume) the sound of the Onkyo was more pleasing and embracing at low volumes. The CA sounds very petite at low volumes. My conclusion: I like the CA but I don’t love it, my goal for the future is to find an amp that has the clarity, air and detail of the CA but also has the ability to sound convincing at low volume levels (more body).
Any suggestions?
Walker

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nt....

$1000 max.

You've got to consider your budget first. With amps, you hit the point of diminishing returns pretty quick. I would happily trade in my Musical Fidelity A3cr amp for the TriVista line, but it's more than 3x the price! Even then it wouldn't be the big difference you get jumping from a receiver to a decent amp.

I've also got the same problem with my setup at low listening levels. The real problem comes from your HEARING responce, not your amp. At low levels your hearing is markedly non-linear. Low frequancy hearing responce especially suffers at low volume. Loudness controls offered on recievers are designed to compensate for this, although the "Midnight" setting on my Pioneer receiver seems to do even a better job, as it includes compression in addition to bass & treble boost.

I've got a novel approch that I've recently done on my system that you might consider;

I'm sending the preamp out on my reciever to my seperate audio preamp. A simple switch to VIDEO on my audio preamp and I'm using the input from my reciever, instead of the direct input from the CD player. It's not nearly as "audio pure" as the CD direct into the preamp, but it gives me a chance to process the signal. I've used it to good effect, and it also allows me to use ALL my speakers when I'm playing DVD's.

Well obviously, this would be my first choice:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls....ran&1093932250

If you browse a'gon, you'll find a veritable cornucopia of options although the ones that caught my eye were Threshold (bias alert: I like Nelson Pass designs), Plinius, Bryston, Krell, Proceed (aka Mark Levinson), and Parasound Halo (not HCA). Amps are usually pretty safe buys when purchased used because there are no moving parts and audiophiles usually take better care of their equipment than they do their spouse.

If you want to buy used, it's very tough to beat Rotel under $1K imo. B&K, Adcom, and Parasound are also right there so it may come down to system synergy. Rotel and B&W play very well together.

Enjoy what you've got for now. Ms. Upgrade is a seductive little minx...

she's also a b!tch :cool:

For the price this is one amp that is hard to beat. awesome power, amazing clarity, capable of instantaneous high current burst of 1000w at 1 ohm....Play some Jazz with lots dynamic swings at high vol levels and you will see why this is important.This amp has a class A preamp too.It has a second pre out which can be used to add another power amp if you want to biamp.

I must say that the CA is growing on me. I used the biwire cables that came with the speakers and it seems that the low end is quite a bit bigger . Especially at low levels it sounds better. I don't know if it's my imagination or not but who cares (it's a little scary to talk about cables on this forum).
I do wonder about my biwire cables, I have 4 rca’s per speaker (low and high) but they come together to just 2 rca’s, so what is the difference?????
Thanks for the advice on future upgrades.
Walker

Your cables are set up in standard biwiring mode. You have one connection at each amp terminal which splits into two connections at the speaker terminals. I also agree with hertz about upgrading to the NAD C370 (or C372 by the time you're ready). It's a good match with your speakers. I'd stick with the Cambridge for a while though. You seem to be enjoying it more as time passes and it is a very good integrated.

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Originally Posted by topspeed

Congrats Walker,

3) The binding posts are disappointing in quality and don't accept banana! WTH??? Get some spades or pins while you're waiting for the unit to come in, you're going to need 'em.

Have fun!

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You can use banana's on the Cambridge Amps (although I still agree that the binding posts area crap....). The small circular "plug" in the end of the post will come out but you'll have to get something like a thin knife blade to pry them loose. Once the end-cap has been removed, they will accept banana plugs - I've got mine hooked up this way but had to call the vendor I purchased the amp from in order to learn how to do it and the manual speaks nothing of it.

I've had the 640A for a few months now and am really enjoying it - just hope it lasts for a while. I've been reading about some reliability issues.

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Originally Posted by slate1

You can use banana's on the Cambridge Amps (although I still agree that the binding posts area crap....). The small circular "plug" in the end of the post will come out but you'll have to get something like a thin knife blade to pry them loose. Once the end-cap has been removed, they will accept banana plugs - I've got mine hooked up this way but had to call the vendor I purchased the amp from in order to learn how to do it and the manual speaks nothing of it.

I've had the 640A for a few months now and am really enjoying it - just hope it lasts for a while. I've been reading about some reliability issues.

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Hey Slate,

Thanks for the input. After posting, I later found that the Azur could indeed accept banana's from AudioPlus, the distributor. Unfortunately, the reason I was talking to the distributor was to check on the repair status of my 3 month old 540a (2+ weeks and counting). Hopefully my trials and tribulations are an aberration and you folks will have better luck. I still think the binding posts suck tho :D!

Man - I hate to hear you're having trouble with yours.... I'm hoping that I won't have any issues with my 640a. I love the amp - it sounds better than many other integrateds I've had including those from NAD, Creek, H/K, etc. I honestly couldn't be happier and my only complaints are the cheap volume knob and those damned binding posts. I can't imagine why they skimped on both of those after building such a nice piece of equipment.

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Originally Posted by topspeed

Hey Slate,

Thanks for the input. After posting, I later found that the Azur could indeed accept banana's from AudioPlus, the distributor. Unfortunately, the reason I was talking to the distributor was to check on the repair status of my 3 month old 540a (2+ weeks and counting). Hopefully my trials and tribulations are an aberration and you folks will have better luck. I still think the binding posts suck tho :D!

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Enquiring minds wanna know.

I wonder if they know that hundreds of people are reading your posts about thier service?

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Originally Posted by Geoffcin

Enquiring minds wanna know.

I wonder if they know that hundreds of people are reading your posts about thier service?

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Hey Geoff,

You know, I'm actually not slamming them. I shipped it UPS ground and it had to go all the way from Cali to NY so that alone probably chewed up 5 days or so. Mike at AudioPlus warned me before I shipped it that it was vacation time so it would take a bit longer. Well, the boy wasn't lyin'. As of yesterday, they said they were scheduled to look at it in the next few days. Hopefully, I'll have it up and running in another week or so. I'll let you guys know.

Man, I never realized how horrible my computer speakers were until this happened :p

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Originally Posted by topspeed

Hey Geoff,

You know, I'm actually not slamming them. I shipped it UPS ground and it had to go all the way from Cali to NY so that alone probably chewed up 5 days or so. Mike at AudioPlus warned me before I shipped it that it was vacation time so it would take a bit longer. Well, the boy wasn't lyin'. As of yesterday, they said they were scheduled to look at it in the next few days. Hopefully, I'll have it up and running in another week or so. I'll let you guys know.

Man, I never realized how horrible my computer speakers were until this happened :p

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I think they are screwing you around already. If your dealer confermed that the unit was faultly, then the manufacturer should have authorized an immidiate replacment. If it's going to take another few weeks to get this sorted then they've really dropped the ball IMHO.

Yeah, you're probably right. I guess because it's only used for my office rig, I just don't care that much. Most of the time I'm not even paying attention to the music anyway. Besides, Lord knows I've got bigger issues to deal with than a faulty amp.

We sell both Cambridge Audio and NAD products here. In response to the original poster's question, I find that his choice of amplifier was on the weak side. The Cambridge amps are fine, but they are not the last word in brute power, especially the smaller of the two. The small NAD amp, the C320BEE, has a nice, warm sound while still resolving details so it would have been a better choice at that level. For your particular speakers (another sore point IMO) I find that the NAD C352 would be the best choice. It is reasonably priced and is the best sounding of their integrated amplifiers, even the larger C372, IMO. It sounds like some of you have not had satisfactory experiences by choosing to buy products via mail, based upon review rather than to buy them locally after actually hearing them. The personal service and experience of buying from a competent local dealer would be well worth the "trouble" or "cost" considering what many of you have been through by avoiding it or simply "missing" it.

Bill-

It would be a wonderful thing if everyone had access to a 'local' dealer that carried all makes and models. Mail order, however, is what many need to rely on to purchase components they desire, which is why forums and reviews are so important. I'm curious to know how you found the 320BEE and the 540A to compare. Frankly, I'm not interested in brute power. I'm more concerned with how the amps compare at low volumes. This seems to me to be a more demanding criteria. You say the BEE has a 'nice warm sound while still resolving details." That is pretty much exactly how I'd describe the 540A. You can read my review here at
http://www.audioreview.com/Integrate...7_2717crx.aspx

A lot of posters in this thread (and other threads) have described the sound of each component but few have been able to set up a blind A/B comparison with similar sources and speakers. It would be good to hear a complete informed review of how they compare. If you do post one, I would think it deserved a new thread since many have asked for this comparison.

noddin0ff

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Originally Posted by hertz

For the price (< $1k) this is one amp that is hard to beat. awesome power, amazing clarity, capable of instantaneous high current burst of 1000w at 1 ohm....Play some Jazz with lots dynamic swings at high vol levels and you will see why this is important.This amp has a class A preamp too.It has a second pre out which can be used to add another power amp if you want to biamp.

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My vote in the sub-$1k (used) category would go to the Classe CAP-80/100. Of course, I've been a sucker for Classe's lush, silky smooth sound ever since I heard a pair of CAM-200s on Sonus Faber Signums (*drool*)... absolutely gorgeous with Jazz/Classical/instrumentals.

I used to have an NAD C350 and it was a very good amp for rock - clean and lean with great, tight bass, but a little too grainy and bright for the more refined stuff (the brightness factor really came into play with SACD, especially w/the Axiom M3Tis I used with it).

The Arcam Delta 290/Alpha 10 is a very well-balanced integrated (a smidgen toward the warmer side) for various types of music and a superb bargain, ~$350-400 for the D290, but they are hard to find these days and the build quality is a bit questionable.

Having been caught up in this audio obsession for a few years now and going through a number of amps/loudspeakers/subwoofers/cables/headphones/sources there are a couple of things I've realized. Among them are: 1) You'll never be completely satisfied, and 2) different gear produces different TYPES of sound (one not necessarily "better" than another), which are in turn better suited for different types of music, so select according to what areas you really want to shine or where you're willing to make sacrifices (at least in the "budget" realm).

Does the 540a offer pre-amp outputs to upgrade later. The CA site makes no mention of this but looking on the back of the unit it looks like it has jacks for this.

I have been unhappy with the way my new Marantz receiver does music so im looking back into getting an integrated. How do you think the CA 540a will match with Paradigm Studio 40's. I have heard a few mention the CA integrated amps have some glare in the top end.

Any input would be great.

Cheers,
Glenn

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Originally Posted by anamorphic96

Does the 540a offer pre-amp outputs to upgrade later. The CA site makes no mention of this but looking on the back of the unit it looks like it has jacks for this.

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Yes, the 540a has pre-outs.

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I have been unhappy with the way my new Marantz receiver does music so im looking back into getting an integrated. How do you think the CA 540a will match with Paradigm Studio 40's. I have heard a few mention the CA integrated amps have some glare in the top end.

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I haven't noticed any glare or hardness, and my speakers have an aggressive top end. In fact, when demo'ing amps I specifically searched for amps that had a neutral, if not warm sound that wouldn't exagerrate the semi-horn loaded tweeters, a problem I've had with other amps. Don't get me wrong, it's not warm or tube-like in the least. I'd just say it's neutral in color and does a great job, especially for the price. If your speakers are v2's, I think it'd be a good match as I found the v2 tweeter could get a little ragged at the extremes. Borrow one from your dealer and see how they play together. That's really the only way to really tell. BTW, make sure the unit is well broken in because the CA sounds horrible straight out of the box.