Best Amp/PreAmp for turntable use only

using Klipsch Forte speakers, trying to stay around $1000, $1500 tops.
Currently using plain Technics table will also be changing cartridges. Want some decent power also

I have heard mr. Peabody's Conrad Johnson system and it sounded fantastic for vinyl, but getting both a preamp and an amp from them is pushing way past your price point unless you go way back to earlier models.

It's hard to say what's best, so here are two good options:

Rega Brio

Marantz PM5004

I would buy a nice integrated amp in the $600-800 range and spend another $500-700 on a good phono preamp.

Here's a nice sounding tube phono preamp

http://www.needledoctor.com/Pro-Ject...category=36638


Here are a few integrated amps to consider-

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CA650A

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...umber=MAPM8003

http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo...mber=MHA35%2E2

Another option would be this Outlaw Receiver with phono input and preamp outs- It's a real bargain and the reviews are excellent.

http://outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

http://outlawaudio.com/products/rr2150.html

Audio Research SP9 if you can snag one. They appear on Agon occasionaly and go quick for around $6 or 700.

thanks for the suggestions. I'm not scared of the used market,, any idea how McIntosh or other vintage in this price range would sound vs these new amps above?

has anyone listened to both a Jolida hybrid and all tube design (1501 vs 502)? was going to try the hybrid but have been have been recommended to consider the all tube unit for better sound with the Klipsch speakers. $300 more in cost..Wondering if that seemed worth it to those who have heard both. I have no chance to audition either unit before buying

vintage mac is a great combo with Klipsch, actually, all mac is a great match for Klipsch :)

to answer your question: a used, or somewhat vintage mcintosh, accuphase, audio research,... could outperform the new amps mentioned above, just find the right one. I am a Mc man myself, I have a mcintosh MA6400, which is not real vintage, but it's nearing 14 years old now, and I wouldn't trade it for anything in it's price class.

about the Jolida: I have no first hand experience with them, but I read good reviews everywhere. Tubes are great for high sensitivity speakers like the klipsch.

For the phono preamp:
http://www.needledoctor.com/Lehmann-...category=35460

for the price, I have found NOTHING that even compares to it, and I compared them with everything from a simple pro ject phonobox, to top of the line Graham Slee's (and the black cube gave GS's a serious run for their money)

it's completely adjustable/finetuneable too, meaning it'll work perfect with any cart (I have a Denon DL304, which does need a serious phono preamp. It has a very low output (0,18mV), and requires a somewhat higher loading, which not many phonostages offer at it's price point, let alone being completely adjustable...)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

yeah, i've been looking at vintage Mac stuff and intended to go in that direction but got worn out trying to figure out which model/specific unit without the ability to audition. I will eventually try Mac down the road. The phono preamp looks good. I was considering that Project tube unit, was that the model you auditioned?

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Originally Posted by paddler

yeah, i've been looking at vintage Mac stuff and intended to go in that direction but got worn out trying to figure out which model/specific unit without the ability to audition. I will eventually try Mac down the road. The phono preamp looks good. I was considering that Project tube unit, was that the model you auditioned?

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I had a Project Phonobox 2, for a long while, then moved to a Clearaudio Smartphono.

then got a graham slee Revelation & elevator combo (on very long term loan), and during that while, I was looking for a new phonostage (because the graham slee wouldn't stay mine forever)

I compared the project tube box 2 (like the one they suggested), Leema phono stage (don't know model number anymore - not the 5k one :D ), a clearaudio Basic + & symmetry, various step ups, and the Lehmann audio black cube, with and without upgraded power supply. I also tested the Lehmann audio Black Cube SEII.

I got them all pretty much at the same time, and compared all the units with the Clearaudio Smartphono, and the Graham slee combo.

cartridges used were: Denon DL-304 and a Denon DL103, with a better body.

in the end, the Black cube with the upgraded power supply was the clear winner, performing even better than the graham slee combo, which cost about 3 times as much. without the upgraded power supply, the sound was very good also, but bass authority was slightly better with it. Still it sounded better to my ears than the others. The sound was lively, very dark background, very spacious & great soundstage. there was alot of air between the instruments and voices. I also liked the "finished" look of this product, while it might not seem that special in photo's, it actually is. inside you'll find seperate dual mono circuits, very very nice components, good shielded power cable too, with separate supplies for both left and right channels. there clearly was quite some engineering behind this :)

the clearaudio's came second, with an open, detailed sound, and very quiet also, very good build quality also, but the sound was well, somewhat "dead", it does sound very good, but a bit analytical for my taste, the black cube was far more musical, just like the Graham Slee's. While not being able to adjust the settings here, the clearaudio's impedance for MC carts is high enough (800) for most carts, and there is enough gain to support the lower output MC's too.

the Leema was a very good performer, just, not with my 304. Due to the low (and not adjustable) impedance, it rules out the carts demanding a higher loading (such as my 304). With the 304 the soundstage really collapsed, and some sort of a veil was put over the sound, like someone were to put a blanket before the speakers. With the 103 though, it was musical and dynamic, but it missed some detail, the clearaudio & Lehmann were quieter too. overall, this was a great phonostage, but it didn't work with my main cart, so it was no deal for me (also pretty expensive for what it is...)

The project tube box...
well, it did sound detailed, somewhat, the soundstage was good, not impressive, but good. But even with the addition of the tubes, in a desperate attempt to liven things up, it sounded dead to my ears. there simply was not as much life in it as the others mentioned above, nor the dynamics. others might like it, but it's just not my cup of tea. also, the background was more gray-ish... somewhat noisier, so it seemed...

Anyway, hope this helped... it's hard to clearly remember everything I heard, it's been half a year ago or so since I did the comparison... :)

eventually, I settled with the Lehmann audio Black Cube, now saving for the PXW power supply... :)

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

wow thanks for the info^^^nothing like a head to head to head .. thats looking like a good place to start

basite- is the Black Box SE the same amp as the plain Blackbox with just a power supply added?

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Originally Posted by paddler

basite- is the Black Box SE the same amp as the plain Blackbox with just a power supply added?

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yup :)

the actual black cube is entirely the same, and the PWX power supply can be bought separately too, so, all in it's time :)

you also have an SEII, which also has the PWX power supply, but more options, I didn't really have any use for them though...
circuit wise, it's pretty much the same (well, except for the extra (passive) options - a bass rolloff/cutoff setting, adjustable in no less than 16 different curves, but I never really used it...) and it's formed slightly different (the Black cube is a pass through design, wire in on the front, and out on the back, to shorten the circuit length. The SEII has all the connections on the back.

Keep them spinning,
Bert.

well hopefully old Onkyo pre-amps, specifically the P-3030 have a nice phono section.

I heard a vintage tubed Dynaco Pas-3 preamp today and the phono stage was stunning. Refurbished ones usually go for $200-$300 on ebay. Pair this with a vintage refurbished Dynaco ST-70 ( $500 max on ebay ) for a killer combo. The ST-70 is the most popular and well known tube amp ever sold and there are thousands out there. There are entire forums devoted to Dynaco restoration and rebuilt kits flourish. The 70 has enough power to drive about anything with lots of authority.

I have the Jolida 502 and it drives my Ushers effortlessly. Has a nice smooth mid range that was a must for me. When I seperated my 2 channel from my home theater system, I needed something on the 2 channel side in a amp/pre combo or an integrated. Started checking and I realized that I could get a nice tube setup. Now I'm thinking about getting some nice floorstanders as my next upgrade.

^^^i went with a Jolida 502 b also and bought the above mentioned Onkyo phone pre to get started. do you have the stock tubes? i read where most prefer un upgrade there..

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Originally Posted by paddler

^^^i went with a Jolida 502 b also and bought the above mentioned Onkyo phone pre to get started. do you have the stock tubes? i read where most prefer un upgrade there..

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Mine has the 6550EH output tubes which I find to be warmer than the KT88 that some units have. The one thing that I miss is a subwoofer connection, that's one of the reasons that I would like to try a floorstander. What speakers are you driving with your unit?

WILL be using Klipsch Forte's., when it gets here. pretty much in a full overhaul, waiting on the "new" pre-amp and a new cartridge also

Quote:

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Originally Posted by paddler

using Klipsch Forte speakers, trying to stay around $1000, $1500 tops.
Currently using plain Technics table will also be changing cartridges. Want some decent power also

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good day mate!
just came across your thread on best preamp/amp to use for phono stage; although these systems are quite expensive, if you want something outstanding someday... my highest recommendation is the conrad johnson ACT2 preamplifier, partnered with a top quality phono stage will reproduce your music equivalent to that of a live performance! unfortunately, I don't have or own any records/LP's since I started collecting CD's from 1986 onwards. hence my CD collection has grown far too much now, therefore I cannot see myself turning to LP's although I would love to someday...
all the CD players I have use tubes as their output stages, hence the sound is far more warm and mellow compared to jarring solid state devices.

I heard a truntable system through the very same c-j preamp, the sound was phenomenal! the power amp was also from c-j and the speakers were sonus faber cremona's. the price tag was close to 200 grand, but hey at least you asked the question and this is my answer. sorry I really don't know any good stuff for less than $2000 on preamps that can make phono stage sound that good. also as someone else mentioned, any previous conrad-johnson pre-amps with phono stages are incredible with turn table systems. few c-j preamps I can think of are:
PV15, Classic SE, PV14, PV12, PV8, PFR, Premier 16LS, Premier 17LS, Premier 7, these are all fantastic with trun tables. if you are not in a hurry and would like to start saving like I did around 20 years ago, you may manage to acquire one of c-j top premier preamps, they are truly worth it! you won't be disappointed, trust me I've been there!

hope you go well in your search.
cheers!
Raj J

If you can you may want to look on the used market - your money will go a lot further.

Also there is not necessarily a big reason to spend piles of cash for name brand prestige. Something like this would be better than an awful lot of the famous names being bandied about and they have outstanding phono stages on board http://audiopreamplifiers.com/audio-...-pre-amplifier

But they're difficult to find.

Just be wary of phono stages in preamps and integrateds. Most companies outsource the stage and they often don't live up to the quality of the line section. An easier way to tell is to look inside the amp of a line version and a phono version to see what has actually been put in.

Also, if Radio Shack (the Source) is in your town they make a $49.99 battery operated (9V) affectionately called the Little Rat (not that now that the source took them over) and despite the store and the pitiful name brand - it was quite popular on AudioAsylum forum as people were comparing it to $500+ Stages from the likes of Grado and it in numerous cases it sounded as good or better. I love Sugden amps but their phono stages were nothing to get excited over.

$1000 - $1500 can go fairly far used. The Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 might be had used in your price range as well and this was one of their best products for turntables.

well got a Jolida 502b and an Onkyo Integra P3030 preamp hooked to the same turntable and speakers which were previously with a late 80's Denon 55W receiver. Got no manual or tube experience so i dont know if tube bias needs to be adjusted.
Not overly impressed right now. not much punch but overall power is better. The preamp has 47K, 100, and a 75EQ setting for MM cartridges. The 47 & 100 settings sound muffled compared to the 75EQ which is too bright. Sounds different but not better other than the extra power. was hoping for a lot more wow