Bass / Treble + Tube Amp

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  • 05-27-2005, 03:00 PM
    FluffySound
    Bass / Treble + Tube Amp
    Hello,

    Well, here's my stupid question, but I just had to ask it.
    I've recently owned an AMC Amp (tube - or probably some don't really call it a tube amp) ANYWAY, I'm looking at the Jolida Amp right now (jd302b http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd302b.shtml) and I like it, but I'm just so afraid it's not going to have enough bass......

    why isn't there a bass / treble dial on these tube amps in the first place......sorry, it's stupid, but I don't get it....please explain.
  • 05-27-2005, 03:55 PM
    RGA
    well many high end amp makers do not feel it's worth adding the 'switches" for treble bass and direct that to them degrade sound. the only time I have ever used bass and treble controls is when i've owne bad amplifiers or receivrs (which are bad amplifiers). I say bad comparatively as what is bad to me may of course be more than acceptable to most.

    tube amps don;t have bad bass or bad treble -- WHEN they have bad bass and treble it is more often than not a mismatch with the speaker. A lot of people make themistake in assuming that if they have sensitive speakers that this will somehow be all that matters with buying a tube amp -- it is more about impedence however. When overdriven tube amps will have a soft bloomy bass sound rather than a SS amp which will just thin out and sound hard. (This is my experience others may differ).

    the silly thing is that manyread most all tube amps measure better than 25hz-20khz at their rated output -- not very many speakers do.

    I would post your question on the tube forum at audioasylum http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/bbs.html

    there will be MANY people with this specific amplifier to help you out. It's a terrific amplifier -- you should also look at the Antique Sound Labs AQ1003DT and there are some big reasons why -- first I think it's a bit friendlier to tube novices it has a subwoofer output so if you ever buy a subwoofer the subwoofer amp will handle bass making your fear go away. The amp IMO is beefier and more substantially built -- it is also physically heavier -- it uses the same tube - it comes with a REMOTE -- and that is a big deal for many people...it is about the same price. You can also speak to the company owner on Audio Asylum as he occasionally pops in -- his name is Joseph Lau. It also has the built on bias meter making tube biasing easier for novices.

    The Jolida is good mind you but it has sorta stayed the same now for anumber of years -- Joe has been fine tuning the 1003dt which is their most popular amp aside from the headphone amp they make I believe. http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html

    This is a very recent review http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...slaq1003dt.htm

    if you can live without remote it's $849 http://www.soundscapeav.com/antique/aq1003.html
    Though I'm not sure some of the last year model have the sub outs so you would want to ask.

    Antique Sound Labs has been around since 1990 so they're not as risky as some of the here today gone tomorrow makers.
  • 05-27-2005, 04:58 PM
    markw
    Enough bass?
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by FluffySound
    Hello,

    Well, here's my stupid question, but I just had to ask it.
    I've recently owned an AMC Amp (tube - or probably some don't really call it a tube amp) ANYWAY, I'm looking at the Jolida Amp right now (jd302b http://www.jolida.com/catalogue/models/jd302b.shtml) and I like it, but I'm just so afraid it's not going to have enough bass......

    why isn't there a bass / treble dial on these tube amps in the first place......sorry, it's stupid, but I don't get it....please explain.

    Well, an amp should be pretty flat across the range. If that's the case, any issues with a lack of bass should be addresses witth any or all of the following.

    The source. If it ain't there it shouldn't be heard. Boosting the bejeezus out something that ain't supposed to be overpowering might be fun for you but it's not a requirement of most people here.

    The speaker/room interaction. A great speaker poorly placed in the room will sound bad. pure and simple.

    But, on the whole. tone contriols are out of favoer with those "in the know" nowadays. They prefer to assume that all receordings are done perfectly and their speakers are likewise perfect and so is their room placement. They prefer to use cables and interconnects as tone controls, thereby spending hundreds of dollars to emulate what a tweak of a tone control would otherwise accomplish..

    Seriously, I lile tone controls as well and would not want to give them up. I rarely use them but when I need 'em to help with a funky source recording they are nice to have.

    With your priorities, I respectfully suggest you reconsider your desire for a tube integrated and look towards a nice solid state unit. you will probably be happier in the long haul.
  • 05-27-2005, 05:45 PM
    wfontenot
    I just purchased a Jolida 202A and have been really enjoying it. I did spring for the sub-out mod and have not been disappointed. Like the post above, I compensated for a little extra bass with my sub.
  • 05-27-2005, 06:07 PM
    FluffySound
    Thank you very much RGA for your thorough explanation!, it's very much appreciated and I am looking at the AQ1003DT right now. What kind of speakers would work with this one? / aka subwoofer if I deem it necessery?

    (having a subwoofer output does make me feel a bit better indeed!)

    Again thank you very much!



    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RGA
    well many high end amp makers do not feel it's worth adding the 'switches" for treble bass and direct that to them degrade sound. the only time I have ever used bass and treble controls is when i've owne bad amplifiers or receivrs (which are bad amplifiers). I say bad comparatively as what is bad to me may of course be more than acceptable to most.

    tube amps don;t have bad bass or bad treble -- WHEN they have bad bass and treble it is more often than not a mismatch with the speaker. A lot of people make themistake in assuming that if they have sensitive speakers that this will somehow be all that matters with buying a tube amp -- it is more about impedence however. When overdriven tube amps will have a soft bloomy bass sound rather than a SS amp which will just thin out and sound hard. (This is my experience others may differ).

    the silly thing is that manyread most all tube amps measure better than 25hz-20khz at their rated output -- not very many speakers do.

    I would post your question on the tube forum at audioasylum http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/tubes/bbs.html

    there will be MANY people with this specific amplifier to help you out. It's a terrific amplifier -- you should also look at the Antique Sound Labs AQ1003DT and there are some big reasons why -- first I think it's a bit friendlier to tube novices it has a subwoofer output so if you ever buy a subwoofer the subwoofer amp will handle bass making your fear go away. The amp IMO is beefier and more substantially built -- it is also physically heavier -- it uses the same tube - it comes with a REMOTE -- and that is a big deal for many people...it is about the same price. You can also speak to the company owner on Audio Asylum as he occasionally pops in -- his name is Joseph Lau. It also has the built on bias meter making tube biasing easier for novices.

    The Jolida is good mind you but it has sorta stayed the same now for anumber of years -- Joe has been fine tuning the 1003dt which is their most popular amp aside from the headphone amp they make I believe. http://www.divertech.com/antiquesl.html

    This is a very recent review http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazin...slaq1003dt.htm

    if you can live without remote it's $849 http://www.soundscapeav.com/antique/aq1003.html
    Though I'm not sure some of the last year model have the sub outs so you would want to ask.

    Antique Sound Labs has been around since 1990 so they're not as risky as some of the here today gone tomorrow makers.

  • 05-27-2005, 06:47 PM
    RGA
    1 Attachment(s)
    First I forgot to mention that you can probably order the Jolida with a subwoofer output for not a whole bunch of money so i want to be fair to Jolida.

    My dealer sells both Jolida and ASL and ASL I have spent more time with as I have their headphone amp. Though I almost bought a Jolida 202 but every time I ent to the dealer to hear ti it wasn't working...the unit had caught fire and had been fixed but failed when I went to audition -- just bad luck.

    The ASL should drive pretty much any speaker of 87db 8 ohm variety -- it sounds a little like my old Arcam SS amp surprisingly so it does have some grunt -- Iheard it drive the B&W CDM 1NT quite well.

    It depends how much you want to spend -- my dealer carries a ton of brands at many prices -- there is no question I am biased toward Audio Note equipment but most of their stuff is very expensive -- still the Audio Note AX Two is $600.00US a pair and are quite happy with my 10 watt amp -- the ASL or the Jolida would have no trouble.

    If your room is not too big I doubt you'd want a sub with the AX Two -- but it is still nice to have the option. Rel makes the best subs that I have heard fro music listneing and Paradigm make some of the better bang for buck home theater subwoofers I have heard. I'm nto really a subwoofer fan and try to avoid them. Still at $600.00 for the AX two and say $200Cad for Skylan Stands (killer stands for relatively cheap - I had them with my last speakers) and then down the road you might have more to buy a really good REL if you felt it was necessary. There are other nice sub 1k speakers but some I like like Dynaudio are much more difficult to drive cost more and to me don't sound better -- different but not better.

    Still tastes vary -- lots of great reviews of products that I think are pretty unlistenable andsome people love them -- The AX two has been selling now for about 8 years but the company making them has spent zero advertising in 6 years and makes no fancy pamphlets - they sell to people who audition. Ignore the names and just go listen.

    I think with ASL you get some choice on the front panel -- they used to offer Silver, Black and Gold.

    Anothr reason I mention the AX Two is that many Jolida dealers match the AX Two with Jolida amplifiers -- ASL uses the same tube compliment and likely a very similar if not identical topology so the AX Two should also be a great match. the Dealer Response Audio in NYC had the Jolida 300b 8 watt set running the Audio Note AX Two speakers and the AZ One floorstanders
  • 05-27-2005, 06:54 PM
    RGA
    This fellow bought the AX Two and he has BOTH a Joida and an ASL amp -- the thread is fairly old now but it may be of some help http://audiokarma.org/forums/archive...p/t-16130.html

    What you will find is that AN speakers perform much better with tube amplifiers and really should be run with tube amps that have little feedback and lower damping factors. Some SS amps are OK but few are good with them.
  • 05-27-2005, 08:02 PM
    FluffySound
    Thanks RGA, I'm reading / reading and reading :), allthough I really should try to get a hold of them and listen to them :)

    Maybe I can get a hold of a set of old B&W DM3000's which would be nice concidering they are of high quality (don't know what time has done with them though)

    .....I'm definately going to look into both the Jolida and the Antique Sound Labs AQ1003DT, choices / options.....and then there is budget ;)

    Thanks a bunch!