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  1. #1
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    bad stereo music on receiver.

    I am in the ht world now for 1,5 years. I started to buy a sony 870qs receiver. and a standart dvd player. after that i bought a pair off large front speakers from elac (cls 14) and a center speaker. When i listen to movies its great, but when listening to music it isnt realy it. 2channel stereo is horrable so you must create a sort of surround sound with the dsp and equaliser(trying not to change the music allot but only getting a better sound stage etc).

    so basicly i want to improve the music, if it is possible i want to listen to 2channel music. My receiver has a pre out. and i saw a pair of ma500 mono blocks from marantz(on the second hand market) for sale for 125 a piece, so for 250 euro i think it is a big step forward. what is your opinion? and are there things to look for if i want to buy power amps? And can i put everu power amp on my pre out? or is it better to get sony stuff? or maybe sell my receiver save money and get a other one? tanx for your help.

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Major question here.

    When you went listening to select speakers, did you listen to mainly two channel music or did you simply listen to movies?

    The reason I ask this is that many speakers (and receivers, but speakers mostly) sound fine on a multi channel source such as movies but when called on to play simple old two channel stereo, they fall down on their faces.

    Wha tI'm getting at is that it might not be a case of an inadequate amp. Some speakers sound pretty much the same, only louder, with more power applied.

    This is why I suggest when shopping, if music will have anuy place in your system, you select speakers based on their musical abilities. If a speaker does music good, it will do HT good as well. The opposite does not always apply.

    YMMV...

  3. #3
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    Go back to the store

    One way to find out if it is the reciever or the speakers is to go back to the store(or any store) and listen to the reciever hoocked up to the best speakers they have. I have listened to a lot of surround recievers hooked up to stereo speakers and they sound fine. Could be a matter of pushing a button on the reciever.

  4. #4
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
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    I'm not impressed with the stereo mode on my Sony as well. If your receiver has the built in equalizer then you have to use it to get decent sound.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wireworm5
    I'm not impressed with the stereo mode on my Sony as well. If your receiver has the built in equalizer then you have to use it to get decent sound.
    That is what i mean, you must do lots of things with the equaliser to creat a bit of nice stereo sound. I heard from a local dealer that there are more people with the same problem. Thats why i am asking myself the question what will happen when i hook up a power amp( a decend one, if i read the reviews about the ma500 i think that would be nice).
    A friend of mine has 2 quad power amps, i will hook them up on my pre amp exit and listen, if its nice i will buy those amps. If they do not then i think i will get another receiver.
    I do not think that my speakers are the problem, i listen to them by hobo and i really liked them. They costed me 650 euro each so i really do not think that they are the problem

    I will let you know what i hear.

  6. #6
    Audiophile Wireworm5's Avatar
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    My Sony couldn't drive my Paradigms either. You will here a big difference with a power amp. I just hooked up a power amp using my Yamaha as a pre and it was significantly better. I also don't think the Sony will be that good as a pre but I'd use it for now and upgrade when you have the funds.

  7. #7
    RGA
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    If it's an issue of powering the Elacs better then certainly a dedicated cleam higher powered power amp will help.

    But the preamp is the part that actually impacts the sound quality of a unit - Sony and receivers in general have horrible preamp sections. Indeed, I hooked up a Bryston power amp to my old Pioneer Elite top of the line receiver and it was startling - that got me into high end - a better preamp was even more startling - but i could not afford that so I went with an integrated. Of course the integrated means loss of surround sound.

    If you can try and run two separate systems - on for music in one room and one for movies in another.

    This way you can also buy speakers that are built for music and not for surround sound - generally if a speaker is advertised for surround sound or the company has it geared with matching center etc it will be sh!T for music. There are some exceptions - bit not many from my experience.

  8. #8
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    This way you can also buy speakers that are built for music and not for surround sound - generally if a speaker is advertised for surround sound or the company has it geared with matching center etc it will be sh!T for music. There are some exceptions - bit not many from my experience.
    RGA, thanks for making (another) typical idiotic statement. Your conclusion is over-simplified and not justified. There are many, many speakers out there with matching center channels that are excellent for music. Either a given manufacturer makes good speakers or does not, center channel non-withstanding. What will you say when AN finally breaks down and sells a dedicated center speaker? What was that, I couldn't hear you....nothing?

  9. #9
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    I am going to buy 2 marantz ma500 monoblocks tomorrow. For 150 each, i think that this is the best solution for the problem. If i had 300 euro to spend and sell my qs, and buy a better receiver i do not think that it will give beter sound than this option. The price of these amps are very stable, so if they are not a big improvement i will sell them.

    I think that a power amp is a good investment, better than a receiver(outdated wenn a new standart arrives at the market). But yes i do know that the sony preamp isn't the best in the world, but that will be the next step. I will show you the result.

  10. #10
    RGA
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    Quote Originally Posted by NickWH
    RGA, thanks for making (another) typical idiotic statement. Your conclusion is over-simplified and not justified. There are many, many speakers out there with matching center channels that are excellent for music. Either a given manufacturer makes good speakers or does not, center channel non-withstanding. What will you say when AN finally breaks down and sells a dedicated center speaker? What was that, I couldn't hear you....nothing?
    I said generally which means there are exceptions - Martin Logan is an exception. If AN decides to do it they will do it right. Besides they already have a center speaker - you can buy their speakers individually - and the dealer here has put a nice h/t rig together with three E's accross the front and 2 or 3 round back. This is what you do if you're really serious about home theater.

  11. #11
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    Pre Amp imparts the sound quality?

    I personally feel that B&W is an exception, as IMHO I feel they have excellent speakers.

    I have a question for RGA or for anyone else who knows this. How exactly does a preamp impart the sound quality? I have a Yamaha RX-V2400 hooked up to B&W CDM series speakers. I'm planning on adding an external amp (think maybe Parasound Halo A52, Rotel RMB-1095, or Bryston 9BSST, or something of the like)

    I was thinking that'd improve sound quality. I'm using the Yammie's processors for HT and radio, but when listening to music CD's, I'm using the Denon DVD-2900's internal Burr-Brown 24-bit DACs and connect it to the discrete input.

    So I'm hoping that'll improve sound noticeably with the B&W CDM NT's. I eventually, but eventually means 2-4 years from now, plan to add a separate pre/processor and use the amps balanced inputs.

    Any thoughts on this?

    Thanks

  12. #12
    RGA
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    The fastest way to demonstrate this on any and all receivers that have some sort of direct botton is to push it. Mos receivers have surround sound yes and a two channel setting. Set it to two channel. you should now be able to control the bass and treble with knobs or remote. If you can do this in two channel then you are keeping the bass and treble controls IN the line. If you push the direct button now it bypasses the switch(es) for the bass and treble. When you do this you should hear an audible difference.

    Basically what you have done is audible been able to detect the difference between switches let alone a whole other preamp - in a way the receiver in direct mode versus the not direct is in essence a whole other preamp.

    Power amp has to simply take a signal and make it louder wthout adding its own voice. Most good power amps sound pretty similar to identical - always exceptions. Receivers generally don't use very good power supplies - it's like an all in one printer - does everything but nothing well. I have both the all-in one printer and the receiver - they are handy devices but if I'm serious about colour printing I would buy a real printer - and that applies to music as well. Unfortunately many expensive companies are just expensive - so listening to a lot is required.

    I think your plan is the typical upgrade approach and a good one. I personally feel Home theater is a bit overrated - and this from a person who was considering film criticism. I would rather listen to movies with 2 good channels than 5 not so good - some will argue mix-downs - not the way the director intended. Nevertheless it's a personal choice.

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