Results 1 to 20 of 20

Thread: Audiogon Scam?

  1. #1
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    12

    Audiogon Scam?

    Hi fellow music lovers,
    I am looking for a good amp for my Dynaudio A52's and am thinking that buying used from audiogon is the way to go because used is a lot cheaper than new. I am a little worried about doing business with some unknown person for a product that I cannot actually try before I buy though. Has anyone had any bad experiences with audiogon transactions? While I am at it, what would be a good amp to make my speakers sing? I am particularily interested in warmth and dynamics and good soundstage. Thanks to all those that reply to my post.

  2. #2
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Only one experience and it was good

    I bought my Cary PH301 phono stage from someone on Audiogon for about $800, it was $1800 new. Came in perfect condition, just needed decent tubes.
    I have no problem with Ebay either, bought two Parasound HCA2200 II's from one seller, $1,450 for the pair, near $4k new. Parasound PLD2000 preamp for $375, near $2k new. Denon DCD2700 CD player for about $150, was near $2k new. I have actually bought many other stereo items from Ebay with no problems other than shipping damage on two pair of speakers. There was some poor handling but better packing would have prevented the damage. I also bought a turntable which arrived with the stylus missing from the cartridge. Should not have been shipped with the cartridge installed but could have been missing from the start, I'll never know. Make sure the seller packs it so it could be dropped from a building without damage. Insurance is a must, UPS paid for one damaged speaker but not another. Original package is usually sufficient.
    How much power do you need and how much do you have to spend?
    There are many old SS amps with 200wpc or so for anywhere from $300 to as much as you'd care to spend. Are you looking at separates, integrated, class A, AB, SS, tube? Lot's of choices. I would recommend separate components to anyone who wants good stereo. I have never heard an integrated amp or reciever that I would buy, even though I still own one old Accuphase integrated amp.
    Bill

  3. #3
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    12

    some more info

    Hi jbangelfish,
    I have been told that Nad c370 (integrated) is a good match for my speakers as is Plinius 8200 (integrated). I haven't heard either one yet so I don't if they would suit my taste. The highest amount that I will pay for amplification is $1500. Paying this much would mean that I would have to make major sacrifices elsewhere (for example, food) so I would prefer to try and spend less. What amp/pre amp combos would be good?

  4. #4
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    How much power do you want?

    I don't know what your speakers can handle, this is where you need to start. It's up to you whether you choose to buy into this efficiency business and that you don't need what they can handle. I will guarantee that if you give them near what they are rated for, (good clean power, not a receiver), you will hear more from them than ever before. What are they rated for?
    Bill

  5. #5
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    12

    Bill...

    Here is a link to the specifications of the Dynaudio audience 52's
    http://dynaudiousa.com/products/audi.../aud52spec.htm
    Basically they have an impedence of 4 ohms and 86db efficiency rating.

  6. #6
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    You don't need too much

    If your speakers are only rated for 150wpc at 4 ohm, a good amp with around 70 to 80wpc at 8 ohm should do the job. Make sure it is rated to drive a 4 ohm load. The spec should read RMS, continuous power, not peak, music power or any other rating. I'd look for one with 140 to 150wpc at it's 4 ohm rating. With the sensitivity of your speakers, I think it's important to push them alittle harder than some that would be more efficient. I'd take a Plinius over an NAD anyday but there should be plenty of good amps available to suit your needs and in your price range.
    Look on Audiogon and Ebay, there are many new and used amps for sale. Good equipment will last 30 or 40 years, maybe longer so I like buying used at tremendous savings (normally 50% or better). I look at power, distortion and damping factor specs to lead me in the right direction. I also like a frequency response to be well beyond what I can hear. The power has to be what you need, distortion as low as possible and I like a high damping factor (500 or higher) to get the bass punch. You won't know for sure until you hear it but these key specs will give you an idea of where it stands. Not everyone will agree with me, it's just how I look at it. As to quality over quantity for a power rating, I agree, quality first but I want both.
    Bill

  7. #7
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    11

    Amp for Dynaudio

    I too have Dynaudio's, and I drive them with a Rotel RB-1070. It's a perfect match, but I could have also picked a Parasound HCA-2200 MKII or Parasound HCA-1500a (great bang for the buck). Parasound and Rotel are good with low impedance speakers, high current amplifiers.

  8. #8
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    12

    Got any more info for me Jmabe?

    Hi Jmabe,
    Could you tell me what kind of sound you get from the Rotel and the two parasound amps that you mentioned? I am looking for more detail,warmth and better soundstage than my Denon 2802 is giving. Also, what pre amp are you using?
    Thanks

  9. #9
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    11

    Parasound

    Rotel tends to brightness, people say. But the RB-1070 would be qualified as almost dark sound.

    Now the Parasound is a sweet, warm sound, but lacks detail. Much more power in this. Go with the HCA-2200 MKII, this is a champion.

  10. #10
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    too much power

    I have two Parasound HCA2200 II amps and they do have lots of power.
    I would describe their sound as very natural, possibly alittle bright on the high end at times but I would blame the source before I'd blame the amp, usually find this with some cd's. I would not complain about a lack of detail, I hear more detail than I've ever heard and I'm now using one of these amps instead of both of them.
    I think this amp is too powerful for the speakers that he is going to run with it. The 2200 has 385wpc at 4 ohm and the speakers are only rated for 150. I'm a power nut and I wouldn't do it. I could run both of my Parasound amps to my speakers but I'd have 1000wpc at 4 ohm and the speakers are only rated for 400 so I would be afraid to try this combination.
    I've already suggested that he look for a good quality amp that has around 150wpc 4 ohm. Power costs money so why buy it if you don't need it and especially if you risk damage to your speakers. I'm all for giving them what they can handle but not more than they can take. If I were him, I'd look for the best amp that I could afford that gives somewhere around 140 to 150wpc at 4 ohm. This might even give him something better than the Parasound amp and I have nothing against the Parasound amps at all after using them in a variety of ways for over two years.
    Bill

  11. #11
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    St. Louis, MO, USA
    Posts
    10,176
    I haven't bought from Audiogon but have from Ebay. Fortunately my experience has been good. But there is always risk involved with buying from individuals via the internet.

    I have a few pair of Dyn's. I recommend a Krell integrated amp. They will out perform Parasound separates by far and there are some great deals to be had on Audiogon. The Krell 500i is a seemingly limitless 250 wpc originally selling for $5500 and can be found for about $2k but offers can be made for less. I heard they have been selling for an incredible $1600. $2k is a steal. Very good soundstage, great resolution & detail, very dynamic. Would not say Krell is warm. But the Dyn's are a very neutral honest speaker so you want a nice amp. I would not recommend NAD. In my opinion they wouldn't do justice to the Dyn's. You can get a Krell 300i, 150 wpc, for about $1k. A very good integrated but doesn't sound nearly as good as the 500i. Both have truely balanced circuitry and class A preamp sections.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular psonic's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Posts
    261
    I have had many good experiences used on the net, but there is always some risk. To mitigate this make sure your shipper sends insured with tracking #, this way at least you can contend that the damage was caused by shipping. I like FedEx best in this respect, and I hear UPS is tougher with claims.

    The C370 Nad is probably a great value used if you don't want to spend a bundle, though I doubt you need that much power since the wattage goes way up in a 4ohm load. I've heard of guys using receivers to run speakers like that and the Nad is a huge step up from any receiver; those that group receivers and integrateds together are dead wrong. There are some excellent affordable inegrateds out there from the likes of Creek, Rotel, Nad, Musical Fidelity, Arcam.

    I am using a Nad 304 Integraded and the sound is excellent, relative to what I paid for the gear used. Try the C370 and see if you like it at that price, that is all that matters; you can always sell or trade up for something else down the line..

  13. #13
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Posts
    12

    A quick note

    Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I will take all of your suggestions into consideration. I also welcome anyone else who has some advice or an opinion, to post. I am glad that out of the hundreds of veiws that my thread has received, not one person has had anything really negative to say about their experiences buying online.

  14. #14
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Krell blows Parasound away?

    How so? These types of claims always make me wonder what basis they have for stating them as a fact. Has Mr Peabody ever compared them head to head? Krell has a great reputation and many followers and I'm sure that they are indeed fine amplifiers. Personally, I would never choose an integrated over separates unless very extensive listening tests of my own led me to do so. It hasn't happened yet but never say never.
    The Parasound amps are also "truly balanced circuitry" and seem to be very well designed. John Curl designed the HCA series and many of their preamps as well. He was a designer for Mark Levinson and has a long list of accomplishments. It is my understanding that all preamps are "class A circuitry" so this point seems irrelevant although many companies still like to tout it.
    The Krell integrated might be a great choice for audiodude as it seems to fit the price range and also the power range of his speakers. I'd be most concerned with matching the power first, then look for the best amp that I could afford that has the power I needed. A middle of the road amp with enough power will "blow away" a high end expensive amp that doesn't have enough power. This is a simple fact, if you don't have enough power, you will have clipping, distortion and possible damage to your speakers. This is what audiodude is trying to improve on as he has already experienced the lack of good clean power. There should be many fairly inexpensive integrateds and even amp/preamp separates available for under $1000 that would make audiodude very happy.

  15. #15
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Posts
    11

    Rotel RA-02

    Is the Rotel RA-02 a fine choice? Or it fits the "would lack power" category? It seems like a fine integrated, and everyone who reviews it seem to like it. Say, to power a Dynaudio Audience 120 pair, or a Paradigm Studio 60 v2, would it handle these babies?

  16. #16
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Roscoe IL
    Posts
    210

    Need more info

    I don't know what the Rotel amp has for power or what the speakers can handle. If the Rotel is an integrated, someone mentioned that they don't like the preamp section of Rotels. This could mean nothing or it could mean that there is a weakness within the Rotel preamps. I have never owned one and can't speak for or against them. Many people seem happy with Rotel components.
    The only integrated amp that I have is an old Accuphase E202. I consider it to have a nice preamp but consider the amp to be weak and sonically inferior to other separate amps, all of which have more than the 100wpc of the Accuphase. The lack of power could be the difference that I don't like. When I used only the preamp section of the Accuphase, it sounded much better to me than an Onkyo preamp which I also had on hand. It compared to a Crown IC150 which is also quite old but a very clean old preamp. I have not compared it to the Parasound PLD 2000 which I use now but I think it would be reasonably close in accuracy and the ability to be quiet.
    I have no experience with Dynaudio or Paradigm speakers but if you like them, as many people do, I'd look for as good of an amp or integrated that I could afford to drive them with that has as much power as they can handle, no more and not much less. This formula has kept me happily listening to music for over 40 years. I am never satisfied with not enough power and have heard many times what not enough power does. Even not so great speakers can be brought to life by a high powered amp that is at or near their limit and will make them perform to their best.
    There are those who use lower powered class A amps or tube amps and have a completely different result. I have no experience with either in stereo components as most of us never will. A typical receiver, integrated amp or even separate amp is class AB in it's amplifier section and this is the only setup that I can refer to. Within these parameters, I will always choose an amp which has at or near what the speakers are rated for. Maybe it's just me but I rather doubt it as I have demonstrated this to many listeners and none have disagreed in my 40 plus years of tinkering with stereo.

  17. #17
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Posts
    38
    I bought an amp on eBay. It was from a dealer who described it as excellent shape and it was indeed pristine.

    I've found that by asking questions, you can usually get a good feel for people. If someone is really doing a sell-job, or describing something 5 years old as perfect, or pushing for a sale, it makes me a bit wary. Another trick I've used on occasion is to ask if you can come see the piece before buying. If you get a "no" that could be another indicator of a less-than-honest seller.

    Nothing is fool-proof, but just being careful by asking questions and checking feedback is big step in the right direction.

  18. #18
    DPM
    DPM is offline
    Forum Regular DPM's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    143

    Check out escrow.com

    Quote Originally Posted by audiodude
    Hi fellow music lovers,
    I am looking for a good amp for my Dynaudio A52's and am thinking that buying used from audiogon is the way to go because used is a lot cheaper than new. I am a little worried about doing business with some unknown person for a product that I cannot actually try before I buy though. Has anyone had any bad experiences with audiogon transactions? While I am at it, what would be a good amp to make my speakers sing? I am particularily interested in warmth and dynamics and good soundstage. Thanks to all those that reply to my post.
    I have made several purchases (Proceed HPA 2 amp, Proceed PAV prologic preamp, Hales Revelation center channel speaker) online from both audiogon and audioweb. I used escrow.com to protect myself against any fraudulent sellers. It adds a little cost, but it is worth it if you plan on spending more than a few dollars. Check it out.

    As for your amplifier quandry, you may want to check out a high powered tube amp from the likes of Macintosh, Musical Fidelity or Audio Research. This way you'll get the warmth you desire and the power your speakers crave. I have a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista (350 watt integrated) that sounds wonderful over my Hales Revelation Threes.

    Dave M

  19. #19
    dax
    dax is offline
    Forum Regular
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Allentown, PA
    Posts
    31
    Quote Originally Posted by audiodude
    Hi fellow music lovers,
    I am looking for a good amp for my Dynaudio A52's and am thinking that buying used from audiogon is the way to go because used is a lot cheaper than new. I am a little worried about doing business with some unknown person for a product that I cannot actually try before I buy though.
    I own Dynaudio Audience 72's, 120C+, & 42W's. I purchased a Sherbourn 5/1500A amp from someone on Audiogon. The 5/1500A is a 5x200W amp (5x300W into 4ohm) and powers the Danes with ease. The key to buying used is to ask questions. The seller actually called me at home to talk about his amp. He had a very high rating so I felt comfortable with the transaction. The amp arrived double-boxed with the original box and manual, and in mint condition as advertised. So look at a person's feedback and ask questions. Used equipment, particularly amps, can be a real bargain on places like Audiogon. Good luck!

  20. #20
    Forum Regular thepogue's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Hayes, Va
    Posts
    490

    just go slow...

    write lots of emails w/question...get a phone number and talk to sellers...I've had lots of luck buying used on-line and as stated above GREAT deals can be had!!
    • Mark Levinson No. 27
    • Musical Fidelity 308cr
    • Martin Logan Prodigy's
    • Ariel Acoustics 10-T
    • Rega Planet CD
    • CJ Premier 9 DAC
    • Linn LP12 - Basik Plus - Valhalla
    • Benz Micro Cart.
    • Akai GX 747 Reel to Reel
    • Straight Wire Virtuoso Interconnects

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •