Audiogon Scam?

[audiodude]

Hi fellow music lovers,
I am looking for a good amp for my Dynaudio A52's and am thinking that buying used from audiogon is the way to go because used is a lot cheaper than new. I am a little worried about doing business with some unknown person for a product that I cannot actually try before I buy though. Has anyone had any bad experiences with audiogon transactions? While I am at it, what would be a good amp to make my speakers sing? I am particularily interested in warmth and dynamics and good soundstage. Thanks to all those that reply to my post.

[jbangelfish]

I bought my Cary PH301 phono stage from someone on Audiogon for about $800, it was $1800 new. Came in perfect condition, just needed decent tubes.
I have no problem with Ebay either, bought two Parasound HCA2200 II's from one seller, $1,450 for the pair, near $4k new. Parasound PLD2000 preamp for $375, near $2k new. Denon DCD2700 CD player for about $150, was near $2k new. I have actually bought many other stereo items from Ebay with no problems other than shipping damage on two pair of speakers. There was some poor handling but better packing would have prevented the damage. I also bought a turntable which arrived with the stylus missing from the cartridge. Should not have been shipped with the cartridge installed but could have been missing from the start, I'll never know. Make sure the seller packs it so it could be dropped from a building without damage. Insurance is a must, UPS paid for one damaged speaker but not another. Original package is usually sufficient.
How much power do you need and how much do you have to spend?
There are many old SS amps with 200wpc or so for anywhere from $300 to as much as you'd care to spend. Are you looking at separates, integrated, class A, AB, SS, tube? Lot's of choices. I would recommend separate components to anyone who wants good stereo. I have never heard an integrated amp or reciever that I would buy, even though I still own one old Accuphase integrated amp.
Bill

[audiodude]

Hi jbangelfish,
I have been told that Nad c370 (integrated) is a good match for my speakers as is Plinius 8200 (integrated). I haven't heard either one yet so I don't if they would suit my taste. The highest amount that I will pay for amplification is $1500. Paying this much would mean that I would have to make major sacrifices elsewhere (for example, food) so I would prefer to try and spend less. What amp/pre amp combos would be good?

[jbangelfish]

I don't know what your speakers can handle, this is where you need to start. It's up to you whether you choose to buy into this efficiency business and that you don't need what they can handle. I will guarantee that if you give them near what they are rated for, (good clean power, not a receiver), you will hear more from them than ever before. What are they rated for?
Bill

[audiodude]

Here is a link to the specifications of the Dynaudio audience 52's
http://dynaudiousa.com/products/audi.../aud52spec.htm
Basically they have an impedence of 4 ohms and 86db efficiency rating.

[jbangelfish]

If your speakers are only rated for 150wpc at 4 ohm, a good amp with around 70 to 80wpc at 8 ohm should do the job. Make sure it is rated to drive a 4 ohm load. The spec should read RMS, continuous power, not peak, music power or any other rating. I'd look for one with 140 to 150wpc at it's 4 ohm rating. With the sensitivity of your speakers, I think it's important to push them alittle harder than some that would be more efficient. I'd take a Plinius over an NAD anyday but there should be plenty of good amps available to suit your needs and in your price range.
Look on Audiogon and Ebay, there are many new and used amps for sale. Good equipment will last 30 or 40 years, maybe longer so I like buying used at tremendous savings (normally 50% or better). I look at power, distortion and damping factor specs to lead me in the right direction. I also like a frequency response to be well beyond what I can hear. The power has to be what you need, distortion as low as possible and I like a high damping factor (500 or higher) to get the bass punch. You won't know for sure until you hear it but these key specs will give you an idea of where it stands. Not everyone will agree with me, it's just how I look at it. As to quality over quantity for a power rating, I agree, quality first but I want both.
Bill

[Mr Peabody]

I haven't bought from Audiogon but have from Ebay. Fortunately my experience has been good. But there is always risk involved with buying from individuals via the internet.

I have a few pair of Dyn's. I recommend a Krell integrated amp. They will out perform Parasound separates by far and there are some great deals to be had on Audiogon. The Krell 500i is a seemingly limitless 250 wpc originally selling for $5500 and can be found for about $2k but offers can be made for less. I heard they have been selling for an incredible $1600. $2k is a steal. Very good soundstage, great resolution & detail, very dynamic. Would not say Krell is warm. But the Dyn's are a very neutral honest speaker so you want a nice amp. I would not recommend NAD. In my opinion they wouldn't do justice to the Dyn's. You can get a Krell 300i, 150 wpc, for about $1k. A very good integrated but doesn't sound nearly as good as the 500i. Both have truely balanced circuitry and class A preamp sections.

[psonic]

I have had many good experiences used on the net, but there is always some risk. To mitigate this make sure your shipper sends insured with tracking #, this way at least you can contend that the damage was caused by shipping. I like FedEx best in this respect, and I hear UPS is tougher with claims.

The C370 Nad is probably a great value used if you don't want to spend a bundle, though I doubt you need that much power since the wattage goes way up in a 4ohm load. I've heard of guys using receivers to run speakers like that and the Nad is a huge step up from any receiver; those that group receivers and integrateds together are dead wrong. There are some excellent affordable inegrateds out there from the likes of Creek, Rotel, Nad, Musical Fidelity, Arcam.

I am using a Nad 304 Integraded and the sound is excellent, relative to what I paid for the gear used. Try the C370 and see if you like it at that price, that is all that matters; you can always sell or trade up for something else down the line..

[audiodude]

Thanks to everyone who has replied so far. I will take all of your suggestions into consideration. I also welcome anyone else who has some advice or an opinion, to post. I am glad that out of the hundreds of veiws that my thread has received, not one person has had anything really negative to say about their experiences buying online.

[jbangelfish]

How so? These types of claims always make me wonder what basis they have for stating them as a fact. Has Mr Peabody ever compared them head to head? Krell has a great reputation and many followers and I'm sure that they are indeed fine amplifiers. Personally, I would never choose an integrated over separates unless very extensive listening tests of my own led me to do so. It hasn't happened yet but never say never.
The Parasound amps are also "truly balanced circuitry" and seem to be very well designed. John Curl designed the HCA series and many of their preamps as well. He was a designer for Mark Levinson and has a long list of accomplishments. It is my understanding that all preamps are "class A circuitry" so this point seems irrelevant although many companies still like to tout it.
The Krell integrated might be a great choice for audiodude as it seems to fit the price range and also the power range of his speakers. I'd be most concerned with matching the power first, then look for the best amp that I could afford that has the power I needed. A middle of the road amp with enough power will "blow away" a high end expensive amp that doesn't have enough power. This is a simple fact, if you don't have enough power, you will have clipping, distortion and possible damage to your speakers. This is what audiodude is trying to improve on as he has already experienced the lack of good clean power. There should be many fairly inexpensive integrateds and even amp/preamp separates available for under $1000 that would make audiodude very happy.

[jmabe]

Is the Rotel RA-02 a fine choice? Or it fits the "would lack power" category? It seems like a fine integrated, and everyone who reviews it seem to like it. Say, to power a Dynaudio Audience 120 pair, or a Paradigm Studio 60 v2, would it handle these babies?

[DPM]

Hi fellow music lovers,
I am looking for a good amp for my Dynaudio A52's and am thinking that buying used from audiogon is the way to go because used is a lot cheaper than new. I am a little worried about doing business with some unknown person for a product that I cannot actually try before I buy though. Has anyone had any bad experiences with audiogon transactions? While I am at it, what would be a good amp to make my speakers sing? I am particularily interested in warmth and dynamics and good soundstage. Thanks to all those that reply to my post.

I have made several purchases (Proceed HPA 2 amp, Proceed PAV prologic preamp, Hales Revelation center channel speaker) online from both audiogon and audioweb. I used escrow.com to protect myself against any fraudulent sellers. It adds a little cost, but it is worth it if you plan on spending more than a few dollars. Check it out.

As for your amplifier quandry, you may want to check out a high powered tube amp from the likes of Macintosh, Musical Fidelity or Audio Research. This way you'll get the warmth you desire and the power your speakers crave. I have a Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista (350 watt integrated) that sounds wonderful over my Hales Revelation Threes.

Dave M

[dax]

Hi fellow music lovers,
I am looking for a good amp for my Dynaudio A52's and am thinking that buying used from audiogon is the way to go because used is a lot cheaper than new. I am a little worried about doing business with some unknown person for a product that I cannot actually try before I buy though.

I own Dynaudio Audience 72's, 120C+, & 42W's. I purchased a Sherbourn 5/1500A amp from someone on Audiogon. The 5/1500A is a 5x200W amp (5x300W into 4ohm) and powers the Danes with ease. The key to buying used is to ask questions. The seller actually called me at home to talk about his amp. He had a very high rating so I felt comfortable with the transaction. The amp arrived double-boxed with the original box and manual, and in mint condition as advertised. So look at a person's feedback and ask questions. Used equipment, particularly amps, can be a real bargain on places like Audiogon. Good luck!

[thepogue]

write lots of emails w/question...get a phone number and talk to sellers...I've had lots of luck buying used on-line and as stated above GREAT deals can be had!!