Anyone using Mackie or Corwn amps?

[poneal]

Hi Grampi. I can understand you frustration with ebay. Every once in awhile you can get a good deal but they are few and far between. I happened across a single channel amp from outlaw audio called the M200 that puts out 200watts@8ohms and 300watts@4ohms. The reviews here and on other boards are all positive. The good news is that it only cost $299. I'm thinking of purchasing one to drive my passive sub that I built. Like you said you could pay over a $100 dollars for a 10 year old amp on ebay or just add a few hundred more and get a new one. If I purchase one, I will let you know how it performs. Here is a link for the amp:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/200.html#

Remember to let us know what you end up getting and how it works out.

[piece-it pete]

The Hafler ad appears to be for TWO bridged DH-200s'. No "official" bridged specs found but the seller mentions 345 watts each @ 8 ohms, and I found some web refs' saying 350.

That's a lot of watts for $300 ($.44 per 8 ohm watt). Also, if your subs are flat-topped you could set them on top with blutak. Not acceptable audiophile wise but we gotta do what we've gotta do :). And it would probably look very cool - they are IMHO nice looking units.

The seller has a lot of those JBLs' and starts the listing with a buy-it-now price of $200. If you e-mail him he might sell you one for that.

When I'm ready to buy I check for newly listed buy-it-now listings as often as possible (5-10 times a day!). Sometimes people ask too little for whatever reason. I also check Audiogon often, so I get the 1st crack at "good deals". But the frustration!!!

Pete

[grampi]

I need an amp that'll do at least 250W X 2 into 8 ohms in stereo, or at least 500W bridged into 4 ohms. A lot of the older amps you can't bridge into a 4 ohm load.

Here's the way I see it. A lot of these amps on ebay are 20-30 years old, and because of this, to me they aren't worth $200-$300. These amps may have better specs and were probably built better than amps made today, but eventually everything wears out, regardless of how well it's built. I could see paying $100 for a Crown DC300A or an Adcom 555, but $200-$300 is ridiculous! What's to say an amp that old isn't going to crap out the sencond you turn it on? At least If I buyer one of the newer amps I'm more likely to get some type of warranty with it.

[piece-it pete]

I need an amp that'll do at least 250W X 2 into 8 ohms in stereo, or at least 500W bridged into 4 ohms. A lot of the older amps you can't bridge into a 4 ohm load.

Here's the way I see it. A lot of these amps on ebay are 20-30 years old, and because of this, to me they aren't worth $200-$300. These amps may have better specs and were probably built better than amps made today, but eventually everything wears out, regardless of how well it's built. I could see paying $100 for a Crown DC300A or an Adcom 555, but $200-$300 is ridiculous! What's to say an amp that old isn't going to crap out the sencond you turn it on? At least If I buyer one of the newer amps I'm more likely to get some type of warranty with it.

Heck I understand that!

I'd be surprised if, after all your consideration, you ended up with an amp that didn't work for you.

Just let us know - I'll be looking soon!

Pete

[karl k]

I need an amp that'll do at least 250W X 2 into 8 ohms in stereo, or at least 500W bridged into 4 ohms. A lot of the older amps you can't bridge into a 4 ohm load.

Here's the way I see it. A lot of these amps on ebay are 20-30 years old, and because of this, to me they aren't worth $200-$300. These amps may have better specs and were probably built better than amps made today, but eventually everything wears out, regardless of how well it's built. I could see paying $100 for a Crown DC300A or an Adcom 555, but $200-$300 is ridiculous! What's to say an amp that old isn't going to crap out the sencond you turn it on? At least If I buyer one of the newer amps I'm more likely to get some type of warranty with it.

I too have been looking for some boost in my system and here's a couple I found for a reasonable cost...

http://www.djbargains.com/cgi-bin/ss.../srrstswdt.htx

The QSC 850 look like a nice unit. the $299 price is pretty universal everywhere I've shopped on the net. The numbers all look very respectable and with the exception of the overall looks, I would buy it and expect it to work fine for my needs.

http://www.djbargains.com/cgi-bin/ss.../srrstswdt.htx

The Numark Dimension 3 doesn't advertise much in the line of numbers but the company in general looks to be at the fore front of tech in the industry from what I've read and while amps are not they're forte, I assume they're reputation for what they do excell in would carry over into the field of amplification. I've e-mailed them yesterday for the DF, warranty, and other info and we'll see what happens. I will probably buy this unit in a week or so. Have seen it advertised at Etronics for $344 and on sale now at 123dj.com for $329 plus shipping.

Brands I've been told to stay away from include Samson, Nady, American Audio/DJ, Pyle, and Pyramid. In every case, the question of durability came up and while my purpose is for home use and not for commercial use, I will take the advice of those who have given it.

For those of you interested in Damping Factor and how it works(both pro and con), here's a couple of links...

http://www.prosoundweb.com/studyhall...dyhall/df.html

http://www.bcae1.com/ (right side of page, schroll down to item 99)

http://www.pssaudio.com/english/art010.htm

http://www.trueaudio.com/post_013.htm

http://otlamp.com/articles/tomcik/

I personally don't know if the hype is worth it but if I have a choice between getting an amp in the price range with a high DF vs. low DF, then I say play it safe.

I'll let you all know how the Numark unit turns out.

[grampi]

Are these amps really any better than the Crown XLS series amps, which are even less expensive?

[karl k]

Where are they less expensive than the prices "I" stated(not the ones in the links)?

[grampi]

The "buy now" price for the XLS 602 on ebay is $292, and the 402 is $244.

[karl k]

I was in reference to "new" prices instead and the comments made about "old" equipment. If your alright with ebay, great! If not, I'm mearly introducing alternatives in the best price/quality range. As far as better than Crown, I never stated that any of the products in my list(today or any other time) were superior in performance to the Crowns or the Mackies... just a viable alternative that may be of equal quality for less(new).

Didn't mean to mislead you.

[grampi]

Those XLS amps are also new, according the their discription.

[karl k]

I stand corrected. Meanwhile, back at the farm...

Check the price for the same amps at Audiolines.com(XLS602 - 269.95/ XLS402 - 229.95)

The XLS series does appear to have some good specs although I wonder if the specs are the same between the XLS xxx-A vs. the XLS xxx since the "A" appears to be substantually higher in price. In my search, I can't find a difference in specs... just looks.

[karl k]

I stand corrected. Meanwhile, back at the farm...

Check the price for the same amps at Audiolines.com(XLS602 - 269.95/ XLS402 - 229.95)

The XLS series does appear to have some good specs although I wonder if the specs are the same between the XLS xxx-A vs. the XLS xxx since the "A" appears to be substantually higher in price. In my search, I can't find a difference in specs... just looks.

I went to Crowns site and it is likely the cheaper XLS series is the old 3U space series(pre 11/20/2002) and the more pricey ones are the replacements(2U space)

FWIW

[grampi]

Those are some dam good prices on the XLS series amps. It would be pretty tough to justify paying $200 or more for a 20+ year old amp when you can get these brand new with a 3 year transferable warranty.

[grampi]

Here's another question to throw into the mix. Since I plan to use this amp only to drive a sub, why not use a mono block amp? Do any companies make these for home systems? I know they're made for car audio use. Seems to me if they are available, a person should be able to get a relatively high powered, high quality amp for a a fairly decent price.

[thepogue]

this has been a very interesting post...but i just gotta say "ya get what ya paid for"...in an above post you stated "an Adcom 555 worth $100, but $200-$300 is ridiculous!" I've owned Adcom products for 15 years...and all one needs to do if follow the used market and see that the 555 II's get 400 all day long! and the 555s are closer to 3. To be honest I really dont know what your wanting for 100 dollars...if 200-300 is ridiculous for an amp with the reliablity and performance of the triple nickles (and I dont mean to be a smart arse) maybe you need to say a few more bucks...if you get something for $100...you've stole it, not bought it! If it's just a used issue someone above mentioned Outlaw.....they are a great bargin 200wpc for 299...again in todays market a steal...

[grampi]

I guess I just don't understand what keeps the prices of these amps so high. What is so special about these 15-30 year old amps that people are willing to pay $300-$500 for them? I don't know anyone in their right mind who would be willing to pay that much money for receivers, speakers, EQ's, or any other type of audio equipment that's that old. Why amps? You'd think with the advances made in technology over the last 15-20 years, amps built today would be that much better than those built in years past. This would make a person think the demand for new amps would be much higher, making the demand for older amps much lower. This just isn't the case.

[poneal]

Grampi, I figured this was for a sub so that is why I posted about the outlaw audio M200 amp. Its a mono-block amp (i.e. single channel amp). Thats 200wpc into 8ohms and 300 into 4ohms. I think it would adequately drive your sub. I don't own the amp, but I did read reviews here and on other boards and they were all positive. IMO that $299 seems a mighty good deal to me.

[grampi]

Do you know of any that are roughly double that in power? That's what I'm looking for.

[karl k]

Do you know of any that are roughly double that in power? That's what I'm looking for.

I'd like one too! In all the searching I've done on the net, I can say that aside from the plates, and a few from Audio Source, you'll probably not find anything in the price range for new equipment. For older stuff, there are still some Carver home units out there but as with any Carver piece, you'll pay at least half of new and that's still pricey.

Another thought, have you checked your local musical instrument stores and pawn shops?
Your local nudy bars and clubs? Sometimes you will get lucky and find a used unit in good condition after they have upgraded their system.

Never heard back from Numark... what the hail is up with companies and they're ability to talk to the little man! Not a good way to do business, IMHO!

Good luck on your search, I'll be watching to see how you do.

[karl k]

I guess I just don't understand what keeps the prices of these amps so high. What is so special about these 15-30 year old amps that people are willing to pay $300-$500 for them? I don't know anyone in their right mind who would be willing to pay that much money for receivers, speakers, EQ's, or any other type of audio equipment that's that old. Why amps? You'd think with the advances made in technology over the last 15-20 years, amps built today would be that much better than those built in years past. This would make a person think the demand for new amps would be much higher, making the demand for older amps much lower. This just isn't the case.

Why would anyone in his right mind buy a car that is 30yrs old with 75K miles on it for $10K or more when you could have fuel injection, economy, and a better, smoother, more responsive ride?

Why indeed.

[thepogue]

and some think that vintage equipment is better built than what we see out there today! I'm not really in that camp but I've owned an Sansui 7000 receiver that I picked up in '79 and sold it in 84ish (I think it was 185 wpc and none were as purddy IMO). My friend still runs that for 2 channel and she's still running strong. I really can't speak for all other amps but I do own Adcom and Carvers and I feel they were good used buys...in fact in most audio circles the triple nickles (and most there other efforts) are at the lower end of the hi-fi food chain...wanna-be's so to speak....also for the most part the "hi-fi" world shuns using PA equipment for home use...this just might be the snob factor I'm not sure but I made the foolish mistake of going to AA and asking if I could use an older Peavy amp to power speakers and got ice poured on me head...oh well....

[grampi]

I've seen the PA amp thing brought up before too. What's the difference between PA amps and home audio amps? In fact, a lot of the amps I've been looking at have been classified as PA amps, and I think that's because of the amount of power I'm looking for (500W-800W).

[RGA]

Grampi if you want to save money on buying power amplifiers try buying sensitive speakers. Contrary to popular belief there is ZERO advantage in buying speakers that are sensitive and thus 20 watts is more than you'll ever need. And if a sub is a must buy a powered one.

You say a few posts up that you NEED a 400 watt amp? Why? That is exactly double the perceived volume level over a 40 Watt amp. If my speakers are rated 10db more sensitive than yours I will get the same loudness level with 40 watts that you will achieve with 400Watts.

Then you can buy yourself a $20.00 integrated amp that is 20 years old.

More watts doesn't mean better sound...generally the higher the watt number the worse the amp actually sounds in my experience. Bryston and Krell are exceptions along with many others but none would be my first hoice because to get them to sound that good well costsl like a Bryston and a Krell. The same can be had for 1/5 to 1/10 their price if you choose speakers wisely.

A good old Khorn needs all of 3 watts to play very loud with loads of dynamic headroom and will better practically ALL speeakers rated at 85 db and a 500 watt amp. The K horn with 3 watts will probably still hit a 112db. The 85db speaker to get the same would need 512 watts.

Sensitivity and efficiency.

[poneal]

Beware, PA amps normally only go down to 50Hz, which is the lowest the voice can go. Since your driving a subwoofer, you want to be able to amplify sound down to at least 20Hz. I'm not saying all PA amps only go to 50Hz, but make sure you check the specs to see if they can go down to 20Hz.

[FLZapped]

Beware, PA amps normally only go down to 50Hz, which is the lowest the voice can go. Since your driving a subwoofer, you want to be able to amplify sound down to at least 20Hz. I'm not saying all PA amps only go to 50Hz, but make sure you check the specs to see if they can go down to 20Hz.

Huh? Maybe a 60's vintage Bogen. -Bruce