amplification dilemma (for dynaudios 1.3)

Hi,
I have a pair of speakers that I don't want to change (ever, if possible) - Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkII - but upstream, it's a different story: integrated amplifier is NAD C372 and CD player is NAD C542. Overall sound is not all that terrible, I admit, but still it's too crude and shallow for my taste. Now I'm planning to upgrade electronics step by step, starting with amplification (I have some 2000 $). I want to heighten the quality of my electronics to Contours' levels, with 3D soundstaging (depth!) as a paramount virtue.

I wonder how much of sonic "delicacies", soundstaging and all, are concentrated in pre-amplifier section of an amplifier system ? My main dilemma is this: should I replace NAD with some decent integrated amp, or should I go for a preamplifier instead and hook it on NAD's "main in" and use NAD as a power-amplifier ? (Would it be too much difference between two units ? Is it the real McCoy only if both pre/power units are from the same or similar price-class & brand ?)

I would be immensely thankful for any advice on this subject,

Vlada

I enjoyed Linn amplification and source with Dynaudio. Not high in the watts department but it sounded very good. YBA front ends may also be a solid choice.

The Dynaudio impedence may be tough - Feaner likes Bel Canto which may be good to try as well. Nad is a bit grainy -- their preamps are their downfall I suspect.

I'd recommend taking the NAD out of the loop. Give an audition to integrated amps by Krell, Classe' , McIntosh or T+A. I also have heard Bryston has an integrated. Naim is also very good. All of these would drive your 1.3's very well. If you are into a warmer sound and have the money there are some tube integrated amps available that aren't single ended that could drive the 1.3's. Audio Research has one. I prefer matching cdp and amp, in most instances I've found best synergy that way. Especially with Krell. To answer another one of your questions, preamps are very critical to your sound quality. Maybe less so with a passive preamp but I haven't played with those much. What brand you upgrade to depends on which pleases your ears however going the the better quality amps, as above, will yield what you are looking for. I also don't blame you for wanting to hang onto your speakers, they are very very good.

For Dynaudio speakers Plinius and SimAudio integrateds come to mind first for the best overall sonic match. They can also be found readily online used for a decent price.

You are right in your questioning whether you can get more subtley and detail from your speakers. I would replace the integrated first and then look at CD players.

Dynaudio impedence may be 4 ohms but it's phase corrected and relatively flat. For instance, most models never dip below 3.7 ohms. Any 4 ohm stable amp should drive them with ease. Fifty watts per channel should be considered a minimum for dynamics, however.

I'm also very interested in Primare or Electrocompaniet amps because their sound is described in reviews as very opened, airy, warm-side-of-neutral, tube-like (although i don't want actual tubes)... I didn't have the chance to audition them (yet), but apparently it just might be what I need. I'm very curious did you listen any (pre- power- integrated- ) amplifier by these two brands ?
Thanks again !

Vlada

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vlada

Hi,
I have a pair of speakers that I don't want to change (ever, if possible) - Dynaudio Contour 1.3mkII - but upstream, it's a different story: integrated amplifier is NAD C372 and CD player is NAD C542. Overall sound is not all that terrible, I admit, but still it's too crude and shallow for my taste. Now I'm planning to upgrade electronics step by step, starting with amplification (I have some 2000 $). I want to heighten the quality of my electronics to Contours' levels, with 3D soundstaging (depth!) as a paramount virtue.

I wonder how much of sonic "delicacies", soundstaging and all, are concentrated in pre-amplifier section of an amplifier system ? My main dilemma is this: should I replace NAD with some decent integrated amp, or should I go for a preamplifier instead and hook it on NAD's "main in" and use NAD as a power-amplifier ? (Would it be too much difference between two units ? Is it the real McCoy only if both pre/power units are from the same or similar price-class & brand ?)

I would be immensely thankful for any advice on this subject,

Vlada

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It has proven superior to my ears compared to amps costing many times it's price. Several manufacturers are using this tech now in amps, with PS Audio, and Bel Canto at the forefront of audiophile grade amps. The amp that comes to mind in your price range is the new GCC 100 control amp from PS Audio. Using their proprietary "Gaincell" tech, in addition to the pulse modulation amp tech, this integrated amp is a tour-DE-force of cutting edge amp technology. The only problem I have recommending this amp is that you may have to wait for it's arrival, as word is these have been selling much faster than production has been able to keep up. Here's a link;

http://psaudio.com/products/gcc_cont...s_overview.asp

Oh, and yes, I'm saving up now for the GCC 250.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by vlada

Hi...
integrated amplifier is NAD C372 and CD player is NAD C542. Overall sound is not all that terrible, I admit, but still it's too crude and shallow for my taste. ...
I wonder how much of sonic "delicacies", soundstaging and all, are concentrated in pre-amplifier section of an amplifier system ?..
Vlada

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First, not that I'm knocking NAD, but better sound is to be had, (at least, for more money). I certainly noted this before I upgraded from my NAD C270 a few months ago.

Secondly, no, the "delicacies" are not concentrated in the preamp. I had ample demonstration of this when I swapped out my NAD for a pair of Monarchy SM-70 Pro's, (class 'A' and very nice). I notice the proverbial "huge" difference in detail, transparency, etc., even though I was still using my 25 year old Apt Holman preamp.

But this brings me to the third point. Since I was really yearning for remote control, I know I would want to replace the Apt. The Monarchy's plus a new, quality preamp would have run me Cdn$4000 -- too much. However the Bel Canto evo28 intergrated was strongly recommended to me and I was able to try it in-home. I was a bit better than the Monarchy's, had nice controls plus remote and was considerable less than $4000.

Fourthly, all else equal, there is no loss in sound quality with an integrated. On the contrary, there can be improvements since there is often fewer amplification stages and shorter signal path.

Fifthly, however, integrates can be less flexible as to set up. E.g. my Bel Canto has no "preamp in" contacts, so I'm limited for use of an active cross-over to drive my subwoofer, (such as the Paradigm X-30 I had used previously). (I believe this is the result of elmination of a stage in the eVo2i integrated versus separate Bel Canto pre/power options.)

I can recommend the Bel Canto eVo2i without reservation, (though it does not "sound like a tube amp"). It will cost more than your $2000 budget, however.

I checked out the link to the PS Audio GCC Control Amp. I'd love to be able to hear one. I thought it was interesting that they thought the smaller powered amp had the best mids and highs. Unfortunately, no dealer in my area. I did hear T+A in action and I think they use some form of digital topology. They were able to perform as well as other brands in the store costing many times the price of the T+A. I've also heard Krell driving the 1.3's and that is a great match.

You have a lot of choices, hmm. If I had that budget I would also look at Krell & Classe integrateds. Used separates is another possibility. You could try a good tube pre using the NAD (for now), then get an amplifier if needed. The NAD amp is pretty darn good (have used C370 on mine, sounds much better with upgraded preamp) - but why keep it, you can probably sell that for close to $500 and grab an even better amp (classe, CJ, levinson?). You have a lot of options...have fun, and don't forget to use good cables with that gear. ;)