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Thread: amp or receiver

  1. #1
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    Question amp or receiver

    Hello. I can use some advice. I currently have a Onkyo TX-SR806 receiver (1 year old) which I'm not very happy with. It replaced an old Yamaha that I had previously for about 7 years. The old Yamaha (85 watts per channel, no hdmi, no THX, no DTS-HD, etc) just sounds so much better (especially when playing music), I stopped using the Onkyo. I still want something better to use with my Klipsch RF-7 speakers. Something to make my speakers sound a little warmer. I'm currently trying to decide between these two options. A Nad T-955 amp, on sale for $799.00, to use with the Onkyo, or a Yamaha Z11, on sale for $2,499.00. Nad is suppose to be a good product. Of course I prefer the price of the Nad amp, but I'm worried about not being happy with it after the purchase. The Z11 has so many features that I would never use, like the networking, zones, etc. I would appreciate any advice on these two options that I'm considering, or any other options that anyone might have. Thanks

  2. #2
    Suspended markw's Avatar
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    Others may disagree, but I wouldn't count any paricular amp or receiver making those speakers sound warmer.

  3. #3
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Well one thing I would be concerned about with putting an amp with the Onkyo is the fact that the brightness that you are hearing with your Onkyo might be present in the preamp section of the Receiver which would also translate that brightness through the seperate power amp you are using unless the amp you use is abnormally warm sounded itself to tame this. I happen to run an older yamaha receiver for a preamp and run it through an Adcom power amp and it sounds real good. It might not be quite what a good seperate preamp would be but it is about as good as to be expected from a receiver. But I have run my speakers with the receiver without the power amp and the sound was not bright either it just does not have the clarity or control the Adcom has, Plus the dynamic capability. Most often when I have hooked up a seperate amp up to a receiver that did not sound very good to start with the person was not happy after the seperate amp was hooked up as well because much of the bad elements of the receiver were just amplified through the power amp. now this is not allways the case because sometimes the brightness is due to the power amp section of the receiver but it would be a gamble on if this is true or not. My opinion when it comes to preamps and amps if you do not like the sound you are better off to change components. You could switch out speaker cables and interconnect cables and see if this helps as well but if your using quality cables then this should not make a problem of this level to just disapear but it has happened in rare cases. Another thing to think about if you are running multiple speakers for theater and multi channel music then if you just add an amp for the front channels and it takes care of the brightness in the mains channels you will still have the brightness in the other channels in your system and if you are using timbre matched speakers for your other channels the sound will be different between your mains and othe channels. Just some things to concider. Now if you are a music listner most of the time like I am and you use your main speakers allmost all the time like I do then I would ditch the Onkyo you don't like and start off with a components that has better synergy with you klipsch speakers. I have heard good things about Onkyo receivers but sometimes certain components and certain speakers just don't work well together and that is just the way it is and the only way to fix the situation is to change components. I hope all of this rambling helps you

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
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  4. #4
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    I agree with Mark, the Yamaha was most likely less revealing, not as extended on the high end, and would seem "warmer" with the Klipsch. The 806 is a good receiver for home theater. I think I'd look for different speakers if willing to shell out $2400.00. It's difficult to tame Klipsch's horns.

    If you are intent on keeping the Klipsch here's a couple options. I'd have to double check but I'd be willing to bet the 806 has preamp outputs. For just music listening find a stereo integrated amp that would allow you to use it as a slave during home theater playback. This feature is called a "theater bypass" or something similar. What you do is connect the front L/R (main) speaker outputs from the receiver into the integrated bypass input. You connect the main speakers to the integrated. This way the integrated would be used for stereo playback yet when using home theater it can drive the main speakers and can be controlled by the 806. I had this type of set up for a while. My stereo sources was plugged into the integrated while my DVD and cable box into the receiver.

    Another option, depending on what your listening source is, might be to get a stand alone CD player with a warm signature and play it through the 806's analog L/R inputs. This might work very well if the 806 has a "bypass" which bypasses the 806's internal processing. I'd recommend trying the Cambridge 640c which if you can still find them was selling at $349.00 when regularly was $649.00. The Music Hall 25.2 is also a very warm player.

    In any case you should buy from places that will allow you a return option if not happy. Local shops should be willing to allow an in home audition or return. If you are in an area where no one will do that there are many online options.
    www.amusicdirect.com

    www.acousticsounds.com

    www.audioadvisor.com

    www.crutchfield.com

    For music, and if interested in that integrated option, I'd recommend you take a look at some of the tube integrated amps at the www.acousticsounds.com Cayin, PrimaLuna or Jolida typically offer some decently priced amps and will tend to be warmer than solid state. The Klipsch are also easy to drive with out a lot of power. The only draw back is when watching movies the tube amp may not blend well with the other channels driven by the 806.

    I really would start with your music source. That would be the easiest and least expensive route if you can get the sound you like. What do you use for music playback now?

  5. #5
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Mr. Peabody I am agreeing with the theater bypass option in that with a preamp or integrated with this option may be the economical way to go. I keep forgeting that there are quite a few units out there with this option now. And another could be that the speakers are just naturaly too bright for his tastes. I know horn speakers for the most part are harder to tame due to the natural sound amplifying effects of the horns themselves. I sold Onkyo for a while when I worked selling higher end stuff and I never found them to be sonically bright but I did not find yamaha to be dull in the higher frequencies either and we sold Onkyo,Yamaha and Denon and all three were good quality components for the money.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  6. #6
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    I have a Sony ES SCAD player

  7. #7
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    Sorry....typing error...Sony ES SACD player

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    How do you have the SACD connected to the receiver, probably using 2 or 5.1 analog? The 806 may accept PCM via HDMI, whether the SACD would output PCM depends on how old it is. Your listening habit could change things a lot. If using SACD in stereo adding an integrated could still be an option. If you listen to 5.1 SACD...... well then it's either new receiver or new speakers. Definitely if it's a drastic change like the latter buy where you can return if not happy.

    I agree Yamaha is usually decent quality but the sound is mush compared to Onkyo. My complaint is mostly in the low end though and not the highs. Yamaha is much smoother in the high end over Onkyo or Denon and exhibits a more lush midrange, this would sound better through horns. On the other hand I've yet to hear Yamaha present a decent detailed bass line.

  9. #9
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    I would not call the MH 25.2 warm, I found it to be on the bright side in my system. I would look for a Marantz SA8001 or SA8003 SACDP. They tended to be much warmer in my system. Another option is a tube DAC from avahifi.com. or one of his solid state or tube amps. One of the things that Frank VA does in his studio is play a very bright CD on any gear that you may bring along to compare. Then he plays it on his equipment and it smooths and warms it up so it is tolerable. Its quite remarkable because it does so without losing detail and resolution.

    Another cheaper option would be to try a Tube Buffer.

    I also think that NAD gear may help as well.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  10. #10
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    Thanks to everybody for their comments...I appreciate it very much

  11. #11
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    heyjude, let us know if you decide to change anything and how it works out.

  12. #12
    Forum Regular Audioman00's Avatar
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    the pre-amp section in the onkyo is not going to IMO make anything sound much better, the tonal quality will stay the same because of the crappy pre-amp/ the yamaha you mentioned would get you better parts and sound throughout the system.

  13. #13
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    I'm not sure what you are speaking of when saying "better parts" but Onkyo has a much better power amp section, more current.

  14. #14
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    There is always the option to get equalizer to make the sound better! I have 2 of them!

  15. #15
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  16. #16
    One of Jerry's Kids Jim Eck's Avatar
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    I would second the tube buffer, Klipsch and tubes go together. I have been using the Grant Fidelity Tube Buffer for over a year and have been very satisfied. If you contact Ian at Grant Fidelity he is pretty easy to work with.

    There are some very good reviews on their site demonstrating the abilities of the buffer.

    Jim
    Fairchild 412-1B SME arm Pickering XSV-3000
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    Tube system Scott 299B, Thorens TD-160, Klipsch Heresy's

  17. #17
    Sophisticated Red Neck manlystanley's Avatar
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    Like everyone else, I would not think that putting in a new power amp will solve your brightness problem. All your components need to work together. I love my Klipsh RB5-II's in my family room. They sound warm and really good with my lower end Denon receiver. IMHO, Klipsch sound best with lower end equipment. They seem to accentuate certain sounds and so with better equipment, they do sound bright. (Putting flame resistant undy's on ).

    I unfortunately don't know what a 'tube buffer is' but these guys know what there talking about...so I'm sure that will work great.

    I love my B&W 684's. As I upgrade my system, they sound better and better. But, I know that in time (as I get better and better components) I'll need to upgrade them as well.

    So, what I suggest (because it's not my money and I love hearing myself talk is): Get yourself some Craigslist equipment. Look for something like Adcom. I recently saw an adcom preamp AND power amp for $150. Take these home and try them out. If these sound to bright, then you may need new speakers. Worst comes to worst, you'll just need to resell the CL equipment.

    Best Regards,
    Stan
    Last edited by manlystanley; 12-01-2009 at 09:27 AM.
    Listening/Movie Room: ADCOM GTP-500, XPA-2, Denon 3930ci, Front: Jamo C809; Surround: Klipsch R-5650-S; Back: R-5650-S; Denon AVR-687,. Projector: Sharp XR-32X.

    Family Room: Denon avr-687, Denon CD player, Klipsch RB-5II

  18. #18
    Forum Regular blackraven's Avatar
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    Manly, the tube buffer is basically a vacuum tube that can be placed inline between to preamp and amp or CDP and preamp. Its used to get that warmer tube like sound. Its a cheap way of doing it. Some people like them, some don't.
    Pass Labs X250 amp, BAT Vk-51se Preamp,
    Thorens TD-145 TT, Bellari phono preamp, Nagaoka MP-200 Cartridge
    Magnepan QR1.6 speakers
    Luxman DA-06 DAC
    Van Alstine Ultra Plus Hybrid Tube DAC
    Dual Martin Logan Original Dynamo Subs
    Parasound A21 amp
    Vintage Luxman T-110 tuner
    Magnepan MMG's, Grant Fidelity DAC-11, Class D CDA254 amp
    Monitor Audio S1 speakers, PSB B6 speakers
    Vintage Technic's Integrated amp
    Music Hall 25.2 CDP
    Adcom GFR 700 AVR
    Cables- Cardas, Silnote, BJC
    Velodyne CHT 8 sub

  19. #19
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    Power or Pre Amp

    Hello Harely. I am new here yet i need some help. I have an Onkyo A-9755 amplifier. What else do i need to make the best for a home theatre system. Thx. Sami.

  20. #20
    Forum Regular harley .guy07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sami
    Hello Harely. I am new here yet i need some help. I have an Onkyo A-9755 amplifier. What else do i need to make the best for a home theatre system. Thx. Sami.
    Well the 9755 is a stereo integrated amp that is two channel so it is mainly setup for 2 channel music playback. It has the power and the quality for a good 2 channnel system but for home theater you do not have the extra channels of power and the processors to decode the dolby digital and dts soundtracks found in todays movie soundtracks. Your only options really is to start over with a home theater reciever with the decoders and extra channels of power in it to drive the extra speakers. Or you could put a processor preamp in your system and run your Onkyo as the two channel front amplication for your system then get a 3 channel power amp for the other 3 speakers if you really liked the sound of your Onkyo, and since it has a main in jack on the back of it it could be done but most quality processor preamps are pricey and I am not sure what kind of budget you are looking at being able to put to you equipment. Most home theater receivers run at least 700 buck or more to get a unit from Onkyo or Denon that will sound close to as good as your 2 channel integrated. You will probably have a loss of power because most htr's don't put out 150 watts per channel untill you get into the multi thousand dollar range. Onkyo,Denon, and Pioneer Elite all make units that have that kind of power but you have to pay for it. I used to like Yamaha and I happen to own an older unit but I would not reccomend the newer units that they make because they don't seem to have the quality of construction and sound quality that they used to. Just my opinion.

    Marantz SR5008(HT)
    Nu Force P8 Preamp (2 channel)
    Pass Labs X150.5(2 channel)
    Adcom 545 mk2 power amp(rear channel amp)
    Spatial Audio M3 Turbo S Mains Speakers
    Dayton 8" HO custom sealed subwoofer(2 channel)
    Yamaha NS-c444 center channel
    Emotiva ERD-1 surround speakers
    JBL e250p subwoofer highly modified
    Samsung 46" LED TV
    OPPO BDP-83 blue ray/multi format player
    ps-audio NuWave dac (2 channel)
    Dell I660 music server running fidelizer windows 8 audio optimizer
    PS Audio Quintet power center



  21. #21
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    Thx Harley. I have yet a few more Q's... Agreed my Amp is a Power Amp for 2 channels. I bought it for the same reason and i must say, i have had many amps and AV receviers in the past but nothing sounds like what the A9755 does. Connecting a Processor Pre Amp do u mean connecting an AV Recevier? If yes, why do i need to further connect a 3 channel amp. Wont the AV receiver take care of centre and surround channels? Wont my power amp take care of the front main speakers? Will my front main also be connected tot he AV receiver? Sorry for all the Q's, I am a fan of great equipment but i have very limited knowledge. Cheers! Sami.

  22. #22
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    Jim - HI there! I have posted some Q's on the forum for Harley, however as i see u online, I Will appreciate some tips from you. Thanks. Sami.

  23. #23
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    Sami, the best thing, and least complicated, would be to get a dedicated home theater receiver for your movie watching duties. What Harley was talking about was using the 9755 to power fronts and the new amp or receiver to power the center and rears. I don't think the expense and effort would be worth it. Have you heard the Onkyo HT receivers?

  24. #24
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    Hi Mr. Peabody. thx for replying. I am to get a new onkyo HT recevier. fine i will but i also want to make use of the 9755 simultaineously..... meaning i want to make use of the power amp feature it has. can i connect a HT recevier with pream outputs on it to the 9755? If yes, do i keep my front main speaker plugged into the 9755 and put rear surround and a centre into the new HT recevier? Will both power and HT recevier work at the same time? will i be able to enjoy the movie effect when playing a movie and the 2 front channels only when listening to my music? Sorry for the too many basic and maybe stupid Q's

  25. #25
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    Well, yes, it may be possible to use the 9755 to drive the front L/R speakers from another HT receiver but to use both as preamp would create a more difficult problem.

    Maybe a simpler way would be to use both receivers, with stereo sources to the 9755 and HT sources (DVD, cable box etc.) to the HT receiver. The receivers would share the front speakers. You could do the sharing by having speaker wires going from each receiver to the speaker location BUT you'd have to manually connect the set of wires for the receiver you are going to use at the time. This is pretty easy if you connect banana plugs on the end. Then switching becomes a quick unplug of one set and plug in the other.

    I really don't know of a better way. It's easy to find speaker switchers for two sets of speakers but not so easy to find a switcher that switches more than one amp to only one set of speakers.

    I really would advise against hooking the receivers together.

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