Which Amp

[DMK]

I just want to say that I do not find a lot to disagree with in DMKs comments in this area. I disagree with his notion that there are "subtle" differences in amps, but what I really object to is his standards of proof and evidence. We have been over this a lot, but the scientifically correct view is that it is up to those making an assertion to prove it. Scientific investigation never tries to find all instances of a phenomina (e.g., all listeners). The philosophical postion that "not everyone has been tested" is merely a dodge to get the onus of proof off of those making a claim. This could be said about any scientific law or principle (e.g., not all matter has been check to see if gravity is the same for it as other matter).

The other thing that bugs me is this notion that we should all be "fair" and "accept" the views of others as they have a right to their beliefs and opinions. That is all well add good, but there is such a thing as evidences and that evidence is being ignored by a large number of "audiophiles", so much so that the extreme subjectivist magazines are now the mainstream in audio publications. Many ridiculous and unsupported concepts are taken as fact in the audio world and I find that detrimental to the hobby (or whatever you want to call it).

Perhaps the worst notion in home audio is that idea that you can simply listen and compare components. The number of variables affecting what you here is very large and a listener cannot control them all. Perhaps the most ignored variable is the listener's own expectations--one's expectations are PROVEN to effect ones perceptions therefore you can never get control of that variable unless you blind yourself. The second variable most ignored is level, but there are many, many other factors that make it impossible to get a comparison that, for example, removes all audible variables except the current from the amp. Audiophiles' "own perceptions" ARE powerful, they just happen to be very unreliable. (This unreliabity has been established in several listening tests that I AM aware of.)

I'd really like to talk about skeptic's idea that our standard measurements are lacking. There are two problems with his position at this point:

1) he merely criticizes by saying that frequency response measurements into 8 ohms of resistive impedance is inadequre, instead of giving some evidence that frequecy response changes into 4 ohms (or non-resistive loads) with typical amps. In other words, he needs some evidence other than his opinions.

2) he keeps saying he hears difference in amps, but there is no credible evidence (I am aware of) that anyone has demonstated this. If he can he should share the details with us (and not use old amps that may not be performing up to spec).

I did not say that there are subtle differences in power amps, at least not one SS to another. I said it's possible. You are not even allowing for the possibility that you could be wrong. I'm certainly no scientist but that doesn't sound very scientific to me.

I wasn't aware that I had standards of proof and evidence! I guess if I do, they are pretty simple. I don't require proof of any kind when it comes to someone's perceptions. If they say they heard it, that's fine with me. I may believe that they merely perceived something and it had nothing to do with the different amp or whatever and that is my right. In most cases, all these people are stating is an opinion of what their perception lead them to believe. You are free to discount it. If you do (and you obviously do in each and every case), why not just leave it at that? The bigger question is, what makes you think that anyone on this board or in any remote corner of the globe owes you any proof of what they perceive???? Put another way, who cares if you want proof? And how is the fact that some people ignore evidence detrimental to the hobby, particularly if their experiences fly in the face of that evidence?

I agree with rb's assessment of your paragraph regarding simple listening and comparing. I subscribe to it myself and it was very well written. I'm not trying to piss you off; I'm just asking how you can be so positive that there are no sonic diffs in amps simply because you've seen no evidence to support the contrary view. It helps your case but it doesn't prove it. For all you know, some guy who doesn't give a rat's behind what the scientific world thinks has performed successful DBT's with SS power amps with identical specs and he just hasn't bothered or cared to come forward.