about Marantz integr. amps

Does anyone agree with me when I say that Marantz doesn't really have high powered integrated amps?

The previous Range series had a pm8000 the new Range series no longer have one that powerful. The new pm7200 only has 155watts at 4Ohms and 95w at 8Ohms.
My pair of speakers would like some more power.

I'm quite a loyal Marantz fan maybe I should go for another brand.

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Originally Posted by stereophonicfan

Does anyone agree with me when I say that Marantz doesn't really have high powered integrated amps?

The previous Range series had a pm8000 the new Range series no longer have one that powerful. The new pm7200 only has 155watts at 4Ohms and 95w at 8Ohms.
My pair of speakers would like some more power.

I'm quite a loyal Marantz fan maybe I should go for another brand.

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try the denon pma-2000ivr integrated amp. it's high current even though it's only rated at 80 watts.

What kind of speakers do you own?
What are their sensitivity and nominal impedance specifications?
How large is your room?
How loud do you usually listen to your music?
What is your budget?

High power doesn't mean better. You need TEN times the watt rating to get double the volume.

If the 95watt rating is correct into a real load(speaker) then a 190watt amp would give you a 3db gain in volume level - which is BARELY audible. You would need a 950Watt amp to get double the volume level.

Sounds cool right so you go look for a 950 watt per channel amp...OOPS...but do you check your speaker's maximum Watt rating. Most are in the 80-300 watt range which means at best you're likely to get a 4db increase in volume if you buy a 300 watt per channel amp with a speaker that can take 300 watts...and this only applies when listening at deafening levels.

Chances are the issues is with CLARITY which is unrelated to watts. My old Arcam or present Sugden at 60 Watts playes LOUDER CLEARER than my old flagship Pioneer Elite receiver rated at 125Watts per channel.

The spec sheets tell you zippo about what a unit will actually sound like.

The Sugden A21a has been selling sinc 1968 year in an year out with pure class A power. It began as a 10 watt amp and in 1989 was increased both in looks and power to a 25 watt version. And it will drive probably 98% of the speakers made at any price. Difficulty arises when someone owns a 82db speaker with 1ohms...but then a 100 Watts won't drive that either.

Ohh and there is a reason the A21a has sold that long with no advertising, and there is still a reason that the reviews from What Hi Fi, Stereophile, Hi-Fi Choice still have it as champ under 2kUS - despite 25 watts, no remote, fewer features...that reason is sound. I wish I had it but I could only find the A48B on the used market. But then this amp was made and sold for 3 decades as well.

seems like a lot of people think they need a amp that delivers 500wpc or more. when actually watts aren't the only thing to consider. how much current the amp can handle is very important too.

Yes a 500wpc amp is enough to power anything under the sun. But a high current amp in the neighborhood of 95wpc to 150wpc is a very powerful amp. TO many people get caught up only on wpc and not the current it is capable of handeling.

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Originally Posted by mboldda1

try the denon pma-2000ivr integrated amp. it's high current even though it's only rated at 80 watts.

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The Denon PMA-2000IVR really rocks!!! and is by far superior to the Marantz PM-7200...

It scares me when I start agreeing with RGA, that is until he becomes a walking billboard for Sudgeon or Audio Note.

Nobody here has any idea if you need all of that power or not but let's assume that you do. (Why should anyone assume otherwise since you have given us no reason so far to doubt your needs.) Well do I sound like a walking billboard for Crown? I hope not but if you want POWER, then that is your way to go. Look at Parts Express Catalogue. Start with the CE-1000 at 275wpc into 8 ohms, 450 into 4 ohms, 560 into 2 ohms. Still not enough? bridge it and buy 2 of them. At $450 each including shipping its a bargain. What do you get,--- 900 watts into 8 ohms, 1100 into 4 ohms. Or for a few hundred more than the CE-1000 but less than two of them buy the CE-2000 with 400 wpc into 8 ohms, 660 into 4 ohms and 975 into 2 ohms. Want a state of the art refined high powered amp? Try the Studio Reference 2 with 355 wpc into 8 ohms and 555 into 4 ohms. Probably around a grand, maybe a little more. Ask a receiver manufacturer what his unit will deliver into 2 ohms and he'll probably cringe. By the way, these amplifiers are among the most reliable units available at any price and come with a warrantee which blows the competition away. No I don't work for them.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....Page_ID=133#ce

If you really want and need lots and lots of power, this is a start. BTW, I like Marantz too owning 2 receivers and a preamp.

...these units will never do...not audiophile-y enough...no polished this or anodized that...far too pedestrian...too many switches and those prices, horrors!!!

jimHJJ(...besides it says "Made in the USA"...EVERYONE who is anyone knows it has to come from the Brits or ANYWHERE else to be serious gear for those of the golden ear...)

P.S. Don't Marantz AND Denon have the same parent?

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Originally Posted by skeptic

Well do I sound like a walking billboard for Crown? I hope not but if you want POWER, then that is your way to go.

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Nothing wrong with pointing out a good buy! I wasn't aware of that line. Man, talk about powerhouses, whew I could really get the Danes singing with those. My Rotel 130wpc is bridgable, but not into 4ohms. This is the only affordable amp I've seen that can, good stuff. Some of them do make me think of DJ or Club amps with power ratings that high. Definately would have someone shopping for a sub amp salivating. All discrete circuitry, large caps and torroid transformers Skeptic?

I haven't had a chance to play with any of the Marantz integrateds but the 7200 got my attention when I learned it could be switched to a 25wpc pure class A integrated by flipping a switch. I am skeptical about a class A amp that retails at $550. US. Our local dealer for Marantz won't carry the integrateds. They say they are not a good value. For the price you can easily buy something else that would out perform it. They haven't evaluated the 7200 yet.

I have never heard these amplifiers and can only go by their specifications and the reputation of the manufacturer. Crown has been manufacturing audio amplifiers for professional use since 1967. We've kicked around the DC 300 and IC 150 preamp here a lot. Many golden ears claim they don't sound good. Anyway, those models were offered over 35 years ago. One thing you can be sure of is that professionals rely on Crown for both performance and especially for reliability. As you can see, they are also very cost competitive. You will see DC 300s still operating perfectly today after all this time in heavy professional use available on e-bay for as little as $100 to $200. Before amplifiers, they manufactured what may have been the finest quarter track tape recorders in the world. Even a cursory examination of an SX 824 or SX 844 would convince many people that there was never anything else like them offered to consumers. These too are sometimes offered at astonishing prices because few people want them.

Crown was acquired by Harman International recently and now has the financial backing of one of the world's largest manufacturers of audio equipment joining such brands as JBL, Tannoy, Infinity, Revel, and Harman Kardon. Would the Reference Standard amplifiers give the likes of Bryston and Krell a run for their money? I'd be interested to find out myself. (BTW, when Bryston has to compete with Crown bidding commercial jobs, you can bet that their prices are also very competitive. Professionals are not sold on the same basis as hobbyists. Price becomes a very important factor.)

...numero uno...let's take coffee...first it's a pound can for, let's say a buck or so. Then instead of raising the price, they give you less coffee...then they just raise the price on some bogus pretext...then they come out with a can that says "NEW and IMPROVED" or some such clap-trap...you are so in awe of this new, improved blend, you fail to see in the fine print that you are getting even less coffee at an even higher price...so now we have 11oz. of ground beans @ four bux or better...or perhaps diner joe is more your cup of tea? A quarter, thirty-five cents...a smaller cup and the price goes up...so now you have $6 latte mocha supremos.The trickle-down is whatever the market will bear and many morons think they are getting a great deal...anything cheaper is looked upon as somehow inferior...consumer conditioning, they have ya' jumpin' thru hoops.

No diff with audio or any other consumer goods...you get sold a bill-of-goods...some believe it, some see through it...quite simple.

As far as Marantz integrated amps and the dealer who won't carry 'em...well, unless I'm mistaken, there hasn't been one available in the US market for quite some time...until they decided to release the 7200(which has been available outside the US for some time now...in BOTH black and aluminum). When dealers say stuff like that, it gives me pause...are they blowin' smoke or don't they know or ? I'd take THEIR advice with a big grain of salt!

jimHJJ(...just my skewed take on life in general...)