Mytrcraft is an idiot.

[996turbo]

I wanted a title that would get attention and I thought this would be it.

I have not been to this forum in a while but I thought I would see what was going on here over the last year or so.

I started to read the post about what the difference in cd players was. I thought it sounded trollish at first so I started to read. I then came across some postings from Mytrcraft. You guys can go back and read them.

I then started to read some of his other post and came across what he thought about cables.

I will not even argue against those post as there is no reason to argue with some one who either has no experience in listening to different price points in gear, who is deaf, or who is too jealous because he can not afford it. I just refer him to Stereophile where there are always reviews and measurements discussing the difference in sound and measurements of one player to the next

I would really love to see what gear you have. I fully expect to see only stuff that could come from Walmart or sears in your system. If the quality of the sound has nothing to do whatsoever with cost. You should have the cheapest gear possible.

I also expect you to have done no tweaks whatsoever. This would include vibration control, power conditioning or room acoustics.

Mytrcraft you are nothing more than a troll.Tell us exactly what you have. Give us a picture. If you have already done this give me a link. Are you a member of an Audiophile club in your area? if not join up and go and listen.. Better yet come to my house and Listen.

To all those out there looking for advice this is not the type of person you want to listen to. Let your ears be the judge. Go out and listen to all the gear you can. Listen to every price point that is available and you will see. There is more to this hobby than Japanese mass market crap. Do not let people like this ruin the hobby

[Pat D]

I wanted a title that would get attention and I thought this would be it.

I have not been to this forum in a while but I thought I would see what was going on here over the last year or so.

I started to read the post about what the difference in cd players was. I thought it sounded trollish at first so I started to read. I then came across some postings from Mytrcraft. You guys can go back and read them.

I then started to read some of his other post and came across what he thought about cables.

I will not even argue against those post as there is no reason to argue with some one who either has no experience in listening to different price points in gear, who is deaf, or who is too jealous because he can not afford it. I just refer him to Stereophile where there are always reviews and measurements discussing the difference in sound and measurements of one player to the next

I would really love to see what gear you have. I fully expect to see only stuff that could come from Walmart or sears in your system. If the quality of the sound has nothing to do whatsoever with cost. You should have the cheapest gear possible.

I also expect you to have done no tweaks whatsoever. This would include vibration control, power conditioning or room acoustics.

Mytrcraft you are nothing more than a troll.Tell us exactly what you have. Give us a picture. If you have already done this give me a link. Are you a member of an Audiophile club in your area? if not join up and go and listen.. Better yet come to my house and Listen.

To all those out there looking for advice this is not the type of person you want to listen to. Let your ears be the judge. Go out and listen to all the gear you can. Listen to every price point that is available and you will see. There is more to this hobby than Japanese mass market crap. Do not let people like this ruin the hobby

Whatever mtry's views are (and you don't seem to understand them), ad hominem arguments don't disprove them. You allege he is an idiot, which is a direct ad hominem, and a false one at that and implications about his experience, equipment, and motives. Then you admit you really don't know what his equipment is.

You see, mtry likes to have evidence for claims. Now, evidence is not a concept you seem to understand, since you make all sorts of gratuitous remarks about him. In particular, mtry likes to see evidence for claims of audible differences, where prima facie, the actual differences would likely be so small as to be inaudible.

Stereophile does make measurements of certain equipment. They do make some effort to relate the sound of speakers with measurments and amplifiers with high output impedances (i.e., most tube amps and some SS amps) and occasionally a few other things such as noise and FR). They generally do not publish measurements of the performance of cables and interconnects, for obvious reasons. However, the measurements of good electronics most often does not indicate any audible differences in the sound quality. The alleged differences are left to subjective reviewers who report on their impressions, which being uncontrolled and sighted, are quite unreliable.

[Sondek]

I wanted a title that would get attention and I thought this would be it.

I have not been to this forum in a while but I thought I would see what was going on here over the last year or so.

I started to read the post about what the difference in cd players was. I thought it sounded trollish at first so I started to read. I then came across some postings from Mytrcraft. You guys can go back and read them.

I then started to read some of his other post and came across what he thought about cables.

I will not even argue against those post as there is no reason to argue with some one who either has no experience in listening to different price points in gear, who is deaf, or who is too jealous because he can not afford it. I just refer him to Stereophile where there are always reviews and measurements discussing the difference in sound and measurements of one player to the next

I would really love to see what gear you have. I fully expect to see only stuff that could come from Walmart or sears in your system. If the quality of the sound has nothing to do whatsoever with cost. You should have the cheapest gear possible.

I also expect you to have done no tweaks whatsoever. This would include vibration control, power conditioning or room acoustics.

Mytrcraft you are nothing more than a troll.Tell us exactly what you have. Give us a picture. If you have already done this give me a link. Are you a member of an Audiophile club in your area? if not join up and go and listen.. Better yet come to my house and Listen.

To all those out there looking for advice this is not the type of person you want to listen to. Let your ears be the judge. Go out and listen to all the gear you can. Listen to every price point that is available and you will see. There is more to this hobby than Japanese mass market crap. Do not let people like this ruin the hobby

My sentiments exactly.

I completely detest someone who throws rocks for over 5,000 FIVE THOUSAND posts, telling people that they are imagining things, they can't possibly hear a difference.

Ther is a very audible difference between a $200 sony and a $700 rega, and again from a $1200 cd player and so on. The diffrences are quite pronounced up to at least the $4,000 price point.

All it takes is a reasonable system (synergy) comprised of decent separates that you would find outside the realm of circuit city.

Modifications can and do wark...like a champ.

Some Tweaks work like a champ-tonality changes.

[996turbo]

Sometimes you can not have empirical evidence to prove facts. You have to trust your ears. The post that I have read from him do not accept this. There are alot of things in life that are not absolute. I admit I do not know alot about him but I remember from last year the same type of post. There are a majority out there that agree there is a difference in one component to the other. He is all about psychoacoustics and the dbt. Psychology is a powerful thing but if you can not trust yourself who can you trust. I have been in lots of situations where I wanted to believe one thing but heard another. I am sure there are lots of others with similiar stories.

I have been through alot of gear in the past. My favorite Pre and current resident in my ssystem is a Spectral DMC-20 series II. They also make a great cd player. I suggest that those who believe engineering and science has no effect on the sound you get contact Profesor Keith Johnson to discuss it with him. There is better sound out of better gear if you do not believe that then you have not listened to that gear.

I do want to hear from him on this. I would also really like to see what gear he has. My guess is that his system does not have the resolving power to see the effects of cables or better equipment.

[Resident Loser]

...While mtry can do quite well to handle himself, if you have come and gone from this site you are familiar with his philosophy...no one has to tell you anything re: the gear they may or may not have...it only serves to cloud the issue...just because you or anyone doesn't like my choice of amp or speakers that somehow excludes my take on things?

For instance, in my limited experience with digital I can percieve no substantial difference in CD payers...I enjoy analog...does that mean my opinion is some how limited ONLY to my medium of choice...if anything, as a disinterested third party, my opinon is the least biased and may be the most accurate...

I also think wire is wire...

I also think HT is a blight on the land...

I also think you should have the cheapest gear available...provided it satisfies you...

ALSO...vibration control with analog is a necessity, not a tweak...

Room acoustics, likewise...in fact room acoustics renders all the wire verbiage null and void...

Power conditioning? Regardless of what's happnin' in the grid, what you do within the confines of you home is really gonna' make some difference...Yeah! sure it will...

And listen... to what?...nothing but some rarified audiophile recordings or run-of-the-mill music? FM broadcasts? Vintage 78s of outstanding performances? Are we listening to the music or the equipment? It should be the former.

There is nothing wrong with mass-market cr@p...it's what most actually listen to...and that's part of the point...if chosen with care, a great deal of it sounds quite good...it doesn't require tweaks and power cords and $60/ft wiring suspended on bridges...it requires a decent performance and a happy listener...

jimHJJ(...and while I may not agree with all of what mtry may say or how he says it...ruin the hobby?...he tries to bring it back down to earth...)

[FLZapped]

I wanted a title that would get attention and I thought this would be it.

Which must mean you're a troll.....

I will not even argue against those post as there is no reason to argue with some one who either has no experience in listening to different price points in gear, who is deaf, or who is too jealous because he can not afford it.

My, my, we are handy with the ad hominem attacks, you're looking more like a troll.....
BTW - Can you substantiate anything you've said, or are you just being gratuitously insulting?

I fully expect to see only stuff that could come from Walmart or sears in your system. If the quality of the sound has nothing to do whatsoever with cost. You should have the cheapest gear possible.

Yeah, you're a troll alright.

I also expect you to have done no tweaks whatsoever. This would include vibration control, power conditioning or room acoustics.

Man if insults were frequent flier miles......

Mytrcraft you are nothing more than a troll.Tell us exactly what you have. Give us a picture. If you have already done this give me a link. Are you a member of an Audiophile club in your area? if not join up and go and listen.. Better yet come to my house and Listen.

Seems to me, you are the only troll here. What difference does HIS equipment make when talking about SOMEONE ELSE'S equipment? What matters is that there is reliable, repeatable evidence of said claim of such equipment being true, or false; Or does that not compute with you?

To all those out there looking for advice this is not the type of person you want to listen to. Let your ears be the judge. Go out and listen to all the gear you can. Listen to every price point that is available and you will see. There is more to this hobby than Japanese mass market crap. Do not let people like this ruin the hobby

Oh, I suppose you are an expert? We should all listen to you? Especially since you haven't said one thing useful and wasted lost of space personally attacking someone else.

Now everybody chant the audiophile mantra:

"truuuuust your eeeeaaaarrrrssss"

-Bruce

[FLZapped]

Sometimes you can not have empirical evidence to prove facts.

Facts? Which facts? How did it get to be fact without some sort of verifiable and repeatable evidence?

You have to trust your ears. The post that I have read from him do not accept this.

Neither does science. Actually, they do, the problem comes when your brain gets involved and processes the results of ALL sensory inputs(plus stored memories) into what becomes perceived reality.

He is all about psychoacoustics and the dbt.

So is scientific method among other things.

Psychology is a powerful thing but if you can not trust yourself who can you trust. I have been in lots of situations where I wanted to believe one thing but heard another. I am sure there are lots of others with similiar stories.

WOW! You've answered the question yourself! You weren't sure what you really heard, so your brain turned it into something you could understand based on inputs from ALL your active senses and memories......now you understand the whole problem with uncontrolled testing.

I do want to hear from him on this. I would also really like to see what gear he has. My guess is that his system does not have the resolving power to see the effects of cables or better equipment.

Resolving power, ok, so just how do you measure and quantify that? How good is good enough to "hear" what you're talking about? How does it relate to JNDs?

Or are you just repeating some audiophile speak that has no real meaning?

-Bruce

[996turbo]

I am having a hard time with this topic. I guess it is like a republican trying to talk with a democrat. The point of my post was not to debate the equipment. Everyone has a perception of what they think about wire or power or tweaks. I believe everyone has their right to believe what they want. Mtyr just seems to go on ad nosium about there being no difference in audio gear. If he believes that thats fine but my god every post that some one asks about it he pops up and says it does not matter.I have heard a difference and so has every person who has been to my house. That is all the proof I need. My wife has no psychological tie to any gear and she can hear a difference. These are her rights. Mtyr just sounds like a broken record.

What I meant by resolving power may not be something you are familiar with. It is detail and resolution where you can hear minute changes in your system.

My System
Sony SCD-777es
Spectral DMC-20 SeriesII
Plinius SA-250 MarkIV
B&W N803
PS Audio P300 for front end
PS Audio High Current UO for amp

Wire is Audioquest andVirtual Dynamics it is all plugged in to 2 20 AMP dedicated linesone for the front and the other for the amp.

[JSE]

Wow, most trolls start out discrete and build their reputation as a troll. This guy said to hell with it and came out firing ala ALDO. His troll career will likely be short lived.

"I am having a hard time with this topic"

No kidding?

"The point of my post was not to debate the equipment."

Your right, it was to attack someone.

"I believe everyone has their right to believe what they want."

As long as you can call them Idiots! Huh?

"My wife has no psychological tie to any gear and she can hear a difference."

Do you blame her? She probably does not want to be called an idiot. '

"Mtyr just sounds like a broken record. "

And you sound like a Troll!


Go Away!

JSE

[996turbo]

What I posted about him is just as rediculous as alot of his post.I think what gear he has is relevant to what he thinks. If you expect him to take home a high end cd player and hook it up to a luxman receiver into some radioshack speakers then of course he will not hear a difference. Maybe he has never had any really good gear in his house or ever listened to any.
I have been around audio gear for a long time the list of gear I have heard is very extensive. Mtyr has the same comment to make about every thing. It appears that everybody knows his opinion why does he have to have over a thousand post to reiterate what everybody knows he thinks. All I am asking is for you guys to honestly think about what he says. There are alot of people out there who think the opposite from him. Go over to the Asylum and you will hear from veterans in the industry. Those veterans will tell you in great detail what the differences are. Check out my post over there and you will see that I am not a troll. People like Mtyr would be banned after a short time there because his views while his own are not the general concensus and nobody wants to hear the same thing over and over.

I am not saying I am the expert. What I am saying is that neither is he. We all must trust our ears.

If you have not heard a difference in one component to the next you must look at your system, your room, or yourself. Because there is a difference.

The general feeling I get from this website is that there is alot of low to mid fi here while that equipment can sound very good it will never compete with Hi-end gear. The Asylum seems to be a group of people with more Hi end. This may account for people not hearing the differences as readily as those over there.

If after going to a place like Goodwins with your 200 cd player and comparing it to a DCS on a very nice system you do not hear the difference fine. I will bet you will hear a difference. If any of you are in NC I will challenge you to come over with your cd player or RS cables and we will sit down. I bet $ you will hear the difference

[woodman]

I have been around audio gear for a long time the list of gear I have heard is very extensive.

Oh really? I seriously doubt that you"ve "been around audio gear" anywhere near as many years as yours truly. In fact, I doubt that you've even been alive for half as many years as I've been involved with audio. And as far as the list of gear that you've heard, I doubt that it's anywhere near as extensive as what I've heard through the course of the last 65+ years.

Go over to the Asylum and you will hear from veterans in the industry. Those veterans will tell you in great detail what the differences are.

That's your second mistake ... going to the Asylum. Doesn't that name give you a clue? We'll get to your FIRST mistake in a moment.

I am not saying I am the expert. What I am saying is that neither is he. We all must trust our ears.

THAT is your first (and primary) mistake ... "trusting your ears" is the downfall of those that wander into the audiophile camp. The plain unvarnished truth of the matter is that ALL of our 5 senses operate under the direct influence and control of our ABEs and are therefore not to be trusted with anything! Why do you think that any and all reasonable people that partake in these forums keep saying over and over and over and over and over again - ad infinitum - that sighted testing is totally worthless? The only type of "test" that carries with it any meaning whatsoever is a test where the subject does not know what he is testing while the test goes on.

[QUOTE]
The general feeling I get from this website is that there is alot of low to mid fi here while that equipment can sound very good it will never compete with Hi-end gear.{/QUOTE]

Therein lies your third mistake ... that there actually IS such a thing as "low-fi" and "mid-fi". Those are terms that are strictly the misguided creations of SNOBS that are operating under the intense compulsion to feel "better" about themselves by finding something to look down upon. It's an extensive malady that's tearing apart the very essence of humanity ... the failure to realize that no one is any better (or worse) than anyone else. If you've fallen into that category (which apparently you have) you have my deepest sympathy. You're not alone in this if that's any sort of consolation. There's a plethora of them over at the Asylum.

Now go back to the Asylum where you evidently feel more comfortable. See ya.

[996turbo]

I do not purchase anything based on price or looks alone. I am 31 years old and started out with NAD, Yamaha, and Boston. I have slowly progressed (at least in my ears)the gear I currently have. I never said I was more experienced than you Mr. Woodman. I am merely stating that the blanket statements that I have read on this site by Mtyrcraft seem different than those I have encountered in my house and others. Along the way the changes I have made in my system were recognized as improvements by those who have no idea what they are looking at or listening to> I realize the psychological impacts of wanting what you have and wanting it to sound the best. When my wife says that some change sounds better or worse I listen.

Lets get to the point here. Mtrycraft says there is no difference in cd players and Wire. I have not read enough of his post to know what he thinks of other gear. I and many others disagree. He has in just about every post I have read disagrees with just about every audio enthusiast I know and have been around. Like I said go to Goodwins with your radio shack cable and $200 cd player and compare it in a worthy system and make the decision yourself.
I do not understand why this is such a hard thing for you guys to understand. You are after all on an audio chat board where the gear is part of the fun of this hobby. I enjoy listening to different things and finding the specific synergy in the gear so I can get as close to the music as possible.
If there is no difference in your percieved quality of the sound out of all the gear out there so be it. But do not tell all those out there that believe there is a difference that no difference exist.That is the only thing I am trying to get out of this discussion.

[Pat D]

Sometimes you can not have empirical evidence to prove facts. You have to trust your ears. The post that I have read from him do not accept this. There are alot of things in life that are not absolute. I admit I do not know alot about him but I remember from last year the same type of post. There are a majority out there that agree there is a difference in one component to the other. He is all about psychoacoustics and the dbt. Psychology is a powerful thing but if you can not trust yourself who can you trust. I have been in lots of situations where I wanted to believe one thing but heard another. I am sure there are lots of others with similiar stories.

I have been through alot of gear in the past. My favorite Pre and current resident in my ssystem is a Spectral DMC-20 series II. They also make a great cd player. I suggest that those who believe engineering and science has no effect on the sound you get contact Profesor Keith Johnson to discuss it with him. There is better sound out of better gear if you do not believe that then you have not listened to that gear.

I do want to hear from him on this. I would also really like to see what gear he has. My guess is that his system does not have the resolving power to see the effects of cables or better equipment.

Trust your ears? Well, if you actually want to trust what you hear as opposed to what you see (because if you know what the equipment is, you are subject to all sorts of biases including Attitudes, Beliefs, and Expectations as Woodman says, but not limited to them), then you need controlled double blind tests. In other words, in a DBT, what you really do rely on is your own hearing--but for some reason, you don't seem to want to accept that. Controlled DBT is a way of removing the effect of biases.

[NickWH]

Wow, tough crowd! Don't feel bad 996turbo, I happen to agree with you. I think Mytrcraft is an idiot, too. Every one of his posts are negative and/or filled with ignorance. This is more of a HT forum than AudioAsylum, so I guess you get more traffic from the Circuit City/Best Buy crowd. I suppose comments like his are to be expected.

In the future I would suggest refraining from starting new threads like this one. It automatically makes you a target.

Cheerio.

[E-Stat]

I have been through alot of gear in the past. My favorite Pre and current resident in my ssystem is a Spectral DMC-20 series II. They also make a great cd player. I suggest that those who believe engineering and science has no effect on the sound you get contact Profesor Keith Johnson to discuss it with him.

Spectral components and Reference Recordings are totally outside the experience of the labcoats here.

I do want to hear from him on this.

Won't happen. You see he doesn't trust his opinion since it is subject to human foibles. Instead, you will find that he prefers to live vicariously through the eyes of others through articles on which he reports.

I would also really like to see what gear he has. My guess is that his system does not have the resolving power to see the effects of cables or better equipment.

According to mtry, he listens to a boombox. And is a ditchdigger. Makes perfect sense to me!

rw

[996turbo]

Like I have said My wife has heard the changes in my system for the better or for the worse. I understand what you are saying about the DBT but coming from someone who does not care about the gear (my wife) when she hears a difference it negates the need for it.

[996turbo]

Wow, tough crowd! Don't feel bad 996turbo, I happen to agree with you. I think Mytrcraft is an idiot, too. Every one of his posts are negative and/or filled with ignorance. This is more of a HT forum than AudioAsylum, so I guess you get more traffic from the Circuit City/Best Buy crowd. I suppose comments like his are to be expected.

In the future I would suggest refraining from starting new threads like this one. It automatically makes you a target.

Cheerio.

I understand what you are saying I just wanted to piont out what I read. There is always two sides to an opinion. I think that the ones on the recieving end of bad advice need to understand there are alot of people who think differently.

[E-Stat]

Oh really? And as far as the list of gear that you've heard, I doubt that it's anywhere near as extensive as what I've heard through the course of the last 65+ years.

Ok. Skeptic and Monster have both told of their system experience. Monster even has a *gasp* tube amp. So what is your point of reference? Not necessarily what's in your system, but rather what system(s) have you found to be best in your 65+ years? Do share with us the benefit of such vast experience.

rw

[996turbo]

here is a list of what I have heard in the last year or so
Anthem
Acurus
Aragon
California Audio
Spectral
Plinius
PS Audio
Bent
Convergebt Audio
Green Mountain
Rogue
Cary
Sony
B&W
Meadowlark
Wadia
Audio Research
Bel Canto
NAD
Adcom
Yamaha
Piega
Audioquest
MIT
Monitor Audio
Martin Logan
Krell
Bryston
Placette
Conrad Johnson
McCormack
Scott Nixon
Anodyne
Monster Cable
Virtual Dynamics
Tara Labs
Audience
Nordost
Radio Shack
Ah Tjoeb

All of these components had their own individual sonic signature. I am sure I am leaving some out you must exuse me. Out of all of these products I feel that I have gained some experience. I ask you what reasons did you choose whatt you have purchased if there is no difference. I for one have done extensive listening to choose what I have. I have not chosen anything merely based on what my friends think as many of them have no concept what this stuff cost. I prefer to keep it that way unless they want get in themselves. In my listening room there is one sweet spot. This is a solo hobby. I am in this for my personal enjoyment not to impress the neighbors.

[skeptic]

It would appear that the only reason you came here is to attack someone. What other posts have you participated in? If that isn't a troll what is? You will hardly be surprised that you won't get any support for your views here. Before you admitted that you were from the Asylum, I guessed it. This is typical of the way people debate their points of view there. A lot of flame wars and boasting about who has the most expensive equpment. How much you spend on audio equipment seems to have some sort of status or give rank there. One thing is sure, ideas, scientific evidence, and logic don't play any role in those discussions. I think you will be a lot happier when your keeper finds you, puts you in your straightjacket, and takes you home to where you belong. Perhaps some electro shock therapy would calm you down. As for the other asylum you live in, your marriage, I hope your wife is as crazy as you are because if she is normal, she must be in a living hell.

[Pat D]

Like I have said My wife has heard the changes in my system for the better or for the worse. I understand what you are saying about the DBT but coming from someone who does not care about the gear (my wife) when she hears a difference it negates the need for it.

No, not really. It just doesn't work that way. Maybe she doesn't care, but unless the audition is blind, she may care what you care about or she may develop a preference for some other reason, appearance, cost, size, color, which side its on, which she heard first, and so on. Sighted auditions are less reliable than DBTs, and causes are assigned after the fact..

In any case, human beings are simply built to make choices between things. There is the story of Jean Buridan's donkey (of course, it was made up as a comment on his theory of the will). The hungry beast was placed equidistant between two piles of hay. According to his opponents, the donkey should be unable to make a choice and would starve to death. But of course, it would simply go over to one of the piles of hay and start eating. Most people will develop a preference even among things which perform identically.

[Poss]

There's been a lot of techno/psychological babble in this forum over years. As somebody who actually DID ABX testing at some point in my life I can tell that this "there's no difference" thing is completely false. Sonic character is sometimes so obvious you don't need no ABX to tell two components appart.

To make things worse, the premise on which the ABX brigade on this forum is starting their argument is the wrong, dare I say unscientific way of approaching the subject of Double Blind Testing. For instance medical DBT is usually set up to highlight the existence of postulated differences and any kind of similar testing should be set up the very same way in order to be meaningful. Whoever states otherwise probably had no experience in any kind of testing whatsoever.

Besides there IS one magazine out there that relies on a blind listening panel (not DBT though, but all levels are carefully matched) and measurements for its testing and reporting. They seem to corelate good bench performance with equally good sonic performance on most cases. Imagine that! What a concept!

Regardless, there is enough info out there that, while not 100% pure scientific, is credible enough to suggest there is actually a difference in sonic character between components. Further there is also empirical evidence that suggests that differences tend to dissappear as the level of real world engineering (or shall I say the actual amount of thought put into designing and manufacturing) in competing products gets higher.

In my not so humble oppinion ignoring all this without further investigation and simply dismissing it just because it was not the result of an 100% scientific experiment shows pure and crass ignorance. It is also contrary to most of the scientific or engineering principles I'm aware of. In the world we're all living on, empirical data is essential to R&D, thus essential in advancing technology (regardless of the field).

Finally this forum was a total waste of time 5 years ago. 3 years back was still a waste. Coming back this week feels no better.

While I totally disagree with the unprovoked attack that started this thread I can certainly feel some of the original poster's somewhat justified frustration.

Sorry.

Peace!

[hertz]

There is a big difference between casual hi fi enthusiasts and audiophiles.The audiophile can make out differences between equipment because he is obssessed with natural, uncolored sound. Absolute uncolored sound is not possible but the closer you get there, the better.This means that even so called hi end equipment colors the sound slightly and the color you like depends on your taste.

I have been in this hobby for the last 15 years and I have a small group of friends who are like minded. Most of them including myself have bought their equipment after extensive lisening.So the buying decision is based solely on the SIGNATURE SOUND of each equipment within a certain budget.All of us do not have the luxury of dedicated listening rooms but I have noticed that the differences in equipment is much more noticable and evident when you swap components in a system that is setup properly in a dedicated listening room.


From my experience:
Speakers and room treatment makes the most difference.Then comes the amp.The differences between and cd players and cables are tiny but substantial enough for the audiophile.The differences in cd players and cables are very much evident when you swap them in a system that is setup properly in a dedicated listening room.

[Sondek]

From my experience:
Speakers and room treatment makes the most difference.Then comes the amp.The differences between and cd players and cables are tiny but substantial enough for the audiophile.The differences in cd players and cables are very much evident when you swap them in a system that is setup properly in a dedicated listening room.

I agree with most of that. Cables that I have tried make "noticable" differences at best. usually, going from a poor design (high capacitance or resistance) to a well made cable yeilds the biggest change. But usually, it is a small one.

CD players: the difference between a cd player like the NAD C-540 and a Linn Ikemi is VERY obvious. There is a BIG difference, but most of the difference lies in the ability of the LINN to recover ambient detail the NAD cannot. This is most evident in intimate and classical recordings.

Everything from Allison Krauss to Holst has a toally different level of detail between the two cd players. This amounts overall to a huge change in the way a system sounds. The NAD sounds good, but lacks real detail. And the problem with some folks on this forum is, they have not heard a real revealing system, and not done a comparision like some of us have.

You definately do not need to do an ABX to tell the difference in this case, on the NAD detail is just not there, and the LINN recoveres it...very obvious, and very big difference.

[996turbo]

It would appear that the only reason you came here is to attack someone. What other posts have you participated in? If that isn't a troll what is? You will hardly be surprised that you won't get any support for your views here. Before you admitted that you were from the Asylum, I guessed it. This is typical of the way people debate their points of view there. A lot of flame wars and boasting about who has the most expensive equpment. How much you spend on audio equipment seems to have some sort of status or give rank there. One thing is sure, ideas, scientific evidence, and logic don't play any role in those discussions. I think you will be a lot happier when your keeper finds you, puts you in your straightjacket, and takes you home to where you belong. Perhaps some electro shock therapy would calm you down. As for the other asylum you live in, your marriage, I hope your wife is as crazy as you are because if she is normal, she must be in a living hell.

Do I have to tell you that I have bought my gear based on listening. I have participated in post at this and many other audiosites. I am not trying to hide. I have gone under the same name for the last three years. A troll does not do that.I have been fortunate enough in my life to afford some expensive toys. I have made those purchases through extensive listening and research. What you are refusing to agree with is that different equipment sounds different. I spent yesterday afternoon with a friend setting up my speakers properly. I tried the Cardas method AudioPhysics the Equilateral triangle way and finally settled on my speakers being 80%apart as I am from their front axis. I used a laser range finder acurate to 1 16th of an inch. My speakers are as close to perfectly set up as I can get them now. Only when you have your system setup like a scientific instrument can you realize what I am saying.
I am glad that you have personally attacked me now as it shows me that what I said is an accepted thing here. I do not know Mtyrcraft personally and assume he is not an idiot.It was a tactic to get people to think about what he had said and how rediculous what he was saying was.
Lighten up this is a Hobby. I have in the last 5-6 post not said anything negative about anybody.I merely believe that I hear differences in the gear I have heard. W
Who who does not believe that cd players sound different has heard the list that I have. Have you compared a CAL to a Wadia to a Sony to a Ah tjoeb in a day. I have we did not do a DBT but used one system set up properly all spinning the same disc with levels matched and the same wires. all I did was have to switch imputs. We all could reliably tell which was which. with the lights off.
Take all the personal attacks flying around here and understand you are an audio chat board on a string in a Digital Domain board. If you have no belief that there is a difference why are you here. The whole point is to discuss gear. At least in this area. If all of you think no difference exist be happy with what you and never discuss different gear again.
So tell me what gear you have listened to and was it in a properly setup room. I will invite anybody over to my house for a hospitable time provide food and drink and we can all sit down and listen. If you are not in the area join a club in your area and go and listen.